[SOLVED] Atari Vapor TRX wrong speed? (Slow?)

The saga continues...

I realized today that I hadn't verified that my (slower) Vapor would run normally, at the proper speed, with the 200mhz U50 chip that was in my original Vapor (and runs properly.) I pulled the U50 chip and swapped it in the other Vapor (that's running at 150mhz) and recorded video. To my surprise, the game ran at about the same speed as with the Flagstaff U50 chip -- roughly 3.8% FASTER. This was with the exact same compact flash drive/adapter that was in my original Vapor.

I'm kinda stumped now. About the only thing I can think of to try is to throw a new battery in and set all the settings the same as my original. (The 150mhz/Vapor has a dead battery, thus everything is at default settings.) I don't have high hopes though.

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Wow, that's interesting. Perhaps a long shot, but maybe the roms are different? Maybe double check that the dips are all set the same too? When I get some time I can try doing some timing comparisons of attract mode. I don't think there's a discernible difference though based on game play. Both players were pretty competitive in a 2 lap race.
 
Wow, that's interesting. Perhaps a long shot, but maybe the roms are different? Maybe double check that the dips are all set the same too? When I get some time I can try doing some timing comparisons of attract mode. I don't think there's a discernible difference though based on game play. Both players were pretty competitive in a 2 lap race.

Great suggestions! I just went out to compare the two. Both dip switch banks were the same as I expected.

However, the main ROM had a different number on it.

The one in my original Vapor (that's running correctly with the 200mhz U50) is marked "324400388"

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Whereas the other (slower) Vapor is marked "324400335"

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So, I went ahead and ran my attract mode test yet again. This time, I moved over the 200mhz U50 chip, the compact flash card/adapter AND the "324400388" ROM that were in the normal 200mhz Vapor.

I recorded the attract mode and the result (once again) surprised me. The game ran EVEN FASTER.
To put it in perspective, I record the attract mode and look at how long it takes to get to the "Suitable For All Ages"/3dFX screen, with the first frame being when the title screen appears post boot text.


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Here's the breakdown:

Vapor 1 (proper/normal operation, running at 200mhz, 324400388 ROM) ~ 1 minute, 52 seconds

Vapor 2 (slower operation - presumably 150mhz, 324400335 ROM) ~ 2 minutes, 20 seconds

Vapor 2 (slow board, but with the 200mhz U50 chip from Vapor 1) ~ 1 minute, 48 seconds

Vapor 2 (slow board, but with the 200mhz U50 chip + 32440088 ROM from Vapor 1) ~ 1minute, 45 seconds


Back to the drawing board I guess. Fascinating results, but frustrating. However, if you want to make the game run a little faster, here you go. :LOL:
 
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Good luck on the journey, Jim! Man, reading through this, and seeing that 3D/FX logo on the screenshot reminded me why I got out of PC gaming years and years ago. My OCD brain couldn't deal with frame rate drop, and it almost became more about the statistics than the gaming, and I'd throw endless money into the stats staying at the cutting edge. Lol!

Jason
 
Quick update:

Called Arcade Services and spoke to someone regarding the speed differences. He basically said that the small speed difference with the attract mode may be a non-issue and I should just try linking both games and see how it plays. While I agree that he does have a point in that it may not be an issue, admittedly it wasn't really the response I was hoping for. (I was looking for a more definitive, technical answer.) Nevertheless, I'm going to proceed with the other tasks I have to take care of with the game, namely reassembling the control panel and finish cleaning the cabinet.

I'll revisit this and update when I get to that point.
 
Quick update:

Made a bunch of other progress on the game - getting close to being done with Vapor #2 (other than linking both games.)



On the speed variance front:

My other parts board showed up. It's a model #04-11048.3. At first glance, the board looked complete and in decent shape so I decided to test it just to be sure it is in fact non-working. Upon power-up, I got nothing but solid LEDs. Crap.

Did a little digging into what may be the cause of the solid LEDs and found this thread revolving around the Galileo GT64010 chip.

Looked closer at the board and found the source of the issue...

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Looks like someone f-ed up and accidentally smashed several pins or something like that. I definitely don't have the tools necessary to repair that unfortunately, but oh well. I got it as a parts board anyway.

So, I pulled the 200 U50 chip and threw it in my slower Vapor #2 (which is running a model #04-10860.3-1 board). Recorded and ran a few more attract mode duration tests and, like before with the Flagstaff U50 chip, the attract runs roughly 4% faster. *SIGH*

I still don't know if this is an issue or not, it's just puzzling. At this point, my plan is to finish the last of my tasks for this game and then try linking them together and seeing what the results are and whether there is an issue or not.

If the slight speed difference does present an issue, in theory I think my options would be:
1) Seek out another working #04-10860 (Blitz) board and swap the U50 chip so it also runs 4% faster.
2) Try to find someone to repair the #04-11048.3 parts board I have with the damaged Galileo GT64010 chip
3) Seek out another working #04-11048 board


That's all for now.
 
If it helps, I have two dead SF Rush The Rock Flagstaff boards that I have saved for parts. If you would like some of the chips or the CPUs off the boards for the price of shipping I'm happy to hook you up. They'll sit in my spare parts stash otherwise.
 
If it helps, I have two dead SF Rush The Rock Flagstaff boards that I have saved for parts. If you would like some of the chips or the CPUs off the boards for the price of shipping I'm happy to hook you up. They'll sit in my spare parts stash otherwise.

Thanks. I'm good on chips/cpus, it's just the PCB itself I could use right now. But I'll let you know. Appreciate it!
 
Okay, it's time for an update and some closure.

After running test after test to try to figure out why the #04-10860 (Blitz) board was running roughly 4% faster than my original #04-11048 Vapor board, the only conclusion I was able to come to was that it had something to do with the difference in revisions of these boards. Something other than the U50 speed chip and processor was behind the slight speed variation. Although, it may not have affected linked play, my OCD was getting the better part of me. Ultimately, I found a deal on another working Blitz #04-10860 board and grabbed that. I pulled my #04-11048 Vapor board and swapped it in, and after running a couple more speed tests, I can confirm that both of my Vapors now running at exactly the same speed (i.e. about 4% faster than the #04-11048 board). In fact, there's only about a 2-3 frame difference. I'll keep my original #04-11048 Vapor board as a spare/backup which is never a bad thing.

Along the way, I did make another interesting discovery. After I transferred the Vapor ROMs and 200mhz U50 chip to the new #04-10860 Blitz board, and powered the board up, I didn't get anything on the screen. The three LEDs in the center of the board just kept blinking. I verified that the DIPs were set properly and everything was connected but still nothing. I honestly thought the board had an issue. I decided to throw the old, 150mhz U50 chip back in (since I've seen them cause weird issues) to see what would happen and sure enough, the board fired right up. I swapped the chip with another 200mhz one and once again, nothing - just blinking LEDs. It was then that I noticed that the processor had a numbered label on it. All of the other processors I had seen up til now had no markings on them at all. It got me thinking. Maybe this was an older CPU that didn't support the faster speed? (Previously, swapping the processors had zero effect so I had discounted it as a factor.) So, I grabbed one of the other processors I had from parts boards and swapped in it. The board fired right up and ran as it should. Bingo.

I guess the older, slower CPUs have these labels and the newer/faster ones don't? I also confirmed this with the unmarked CPU from SF Rush the Rock (which contain compatible CPUs and Flagstaff 200mhz U50 chips).

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Anyhow, I'm calling this a success and some closure - although I'm still curious about the 04-11048 vs 04-10860 differences.

Hopefully this info can serve as useful for anyone else that may run into similar situations in the future with these Seattle PCBs.

Now it's onto linking these games finally and enjoying the game!
 
I also covered this topic in detail in my last video blog. I sometimes forget to post my videos on here, but also since there's an abundance of content surrounding the hobby, most of it is nothing new.

 
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