[SOLVED] Atari Vapor TRX wrong speed? (Slow?)

[jimbodeanny]

Recently, we picked up a second Vapor TRX to link with the one we have. We're currently going through the game, getting it cleaned up and taking care of the normal maintenance.

Although the game works, I happened to notice that the game seems to run slower than our other Vapor. The attract mode demo seems to run at a slower framerate and whatnot. I wasn't sure if it was just me going paranoid, but after looking at our other Vapor, it was noticeable.

I went through this thread, which seems to talk about the same thing. https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/atari-seattle-board-cpu-speed-vapor-trx.332033/
I took a couple photos of chips to compare with the other Vapor and it certainly seems like this may be my issue.

Pics of our first (proper speed) Vapor board(s)






And pics of the second (slower) Vapor board(s)





Right now, I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do (or can do) to get this game running properly without breaking the bank. Funny thing is, there's an old Betson repair work order tag at the bottom of the cabinet. Makes me wonder if they replaced the original PCB with one containing the slower chip(s).

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks fellas

-Jim

 

[mecha]

I don't know what I'm supposed to be comparing in your pictures, but Seattle games came with different CPU speeds.

for what it's worth Vapor TRX uses the fastest 200 MHz CPU https://system16.com/hardware.php?id=782

 

[jimbodeanny]

I don't know what I'm supposed to be comparing in your pictures, but Seattle games came with different CPU speeds.

for what it's worth Vapor TRX uses the fastest 200 MHz CPU https://system16.com/hardware.php?id=782

In the thread I linked, they talk about being able to tell by the square Seattle chip. The 200mhz is marked "200" on it, while the others are not.

I confirmed that my other Vapor (that plays at the proper speed) is marked that way.




And the Vapor we just picked up that's running too slow, does not have the 200 label, which seems to be in line with what was stated in that thread.









Again, I'm just trying to figure out what my options are (if any, outside of having to replace the entire board) to get this game running properly.

 

[mecha]

your bottom 1997 chip might be from NFL Blitz, which ran at 150 MHz. I would venture Blitz boards were the most plentiful from this hardware generation. I don't know if those PLCC chips have any bearing on the speed, I would assume that would be at the CPU itself but I never did a CPU swap on any of these before. someone at Arcade Services might be able to help you. I don't remember the process for contacting them, but I think I called them first and then had to fill out an RMA. last summer seems like forever ago now

 

[DRAGONKZ]

My understanding is that a 200mhz CPU will have a "200" on the U50 label.

Any CPU in the U50 that doesn't have the speed mentioned on it would be a 150mhz.

The stickers and A number on your wrong board could be used to try and confirm what it originally was.

The only way to "fix" your problem is swap the CPU to a 200mhz one, or swap the board

 

[TheShanMan]

I ran into this same issue when I got my 2nd TRX, and that was the issue. I had to get a 200mhz board to resolve it. Alternatively I've been told you can swap in that chip to change the speed, but unless you already have the chip, that doesn't help you.

One of mine went down and the board is now dead (sent back from a repair service as being unable to repair), so I'm in the opposite boat. I'd love to get my hands on a 150 mhz board for my TRX so I can swap the 200mhz chip I have into it. If you get to a point where you'd be willing to part with your 150mhz board, please lmk!

 

[jimbodeanny]

Thanks guys.

Well crap. Looks like I need to hunt down another (200mhz) board or chip now. Thanks a lot Betson!

 

[DRAGONKZ]

Talk to arcade services as mecha mentioned, he may have a CPU he can supply.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Talk to arcade services as mecha mentioned, he may have a CPU he can supply.

Okay, just shot them an email. Thanks. Will update with what I find out.

 

[DeLuSioNaL29]

Putting it out there since I'm curious: How about swapping the 200MHZ chip with the more common Blitz 15MHZ chip? Then both games will run slightly slower, but at least they would be in sync, no? Maybe just a temp solution until you find the proper 200MHZ chip.

Del

 

[jimbodeanny]

Putting it out there since I'm curious: How about swapping the 200MHZ chip with the more common Blitz 15MHZ chip? Then both games will run slightly slower, but at least they would be in sync, no? Maybe just a temp solution until you find the proper 200MHZ chip.

Del

That may work, but I can't do it. The frame rate actually lowers (not just a slower motion effect) and the choppiness would drive me crazy. The slower chip seems to drops frames, disrupting the fluid motion that's normally similar to a subpar PC graphics card that can't keep up with a demanding game.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Okay, just shot them an email. Thanks. Will update with what I find out.

Just a quick update: I haven't gotten a response to my email yet. If I don't hear back by Monday, I'll give them a call.

 

[TheShanMan]

Good news... I won an auction for an NFL Blitz 2000. Received it today. Converted it to TRX, swapped the speed chips, and they're both running at the same speed. Hopefully you can get a 200 MHz chip now, and have increased confidence that swapping the chips will do the trick. You just need a PLCC puller to remove them from the socket. I tested the puller on another board I don't care about and noticed that the puller bent one of the pins a little. So when you do it, double check the pin alignment before plugging it back into a board. You don't want any pins to short!

 

[jimbodeanny]

Good news... I won an auction for an NFL Blitz 2000. Received it today. Converted it to TRX, swapped the speed chips, and they're both running at the same speed. Hopefully you can get a 200 MHz chip now, and have increased confidence that swapping the chips will do the trick. You just need a PLCC puller to remove them from the socket. I tested the puller on another board I don't care about and noticed that the puller bent one of the pins a little. So when you do it, double check the pin alignment before plugging it back into a board. You don't want any pins to short!

Nice. Thanks for the info. Did you just swap the square u50 chip or did you also have to swap the processor?

 

[TheShanMan]

Just the speed chip.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Just the speed chip.

Awesome. I've found a non-working parts board coming that appears to have the correct 200mhz chip so hopefully that'll take care of it.

 

[jimbodeanny]

While I wait for my parts boards to arrive, I decided to record a video, comparing the game running at the different speeds. I recorded the attract mode for a couple minutes from my first Vapor TRX (that's running at the proper 200mhz speed) and then took the same compact flash card and drive, plugged it into my other Vapor (that's the slower 150mhz) and recorded the attract mode up until the same point. I synced up both videos to the same initial frame and stopped it at the same frame. The result was astonishing, and confirmed everything that's been discussed. The 200mhz attract mode ended at roughly two minutes and the 150mhz took roughly an additional 30 seconds to get to the same spot. It's noticeable even from the get-go as the "Vapor TRX" title flies on.

Here's the video of a side-by-side comparison:

 

[TheShanMan]

I bet there aren't many people in this world who have experienced that contrast firsthand, but you and I have!

 

[jimbodeanny]

I bet there aren't many people in this world who have experienced that contrast firsthand, but you and I have!

Yeah, it's interesting stuff. I swear that more than half of my posts are just to document things and for my own personal memory. I am glad that I noticed it early on, well before trying to link these games. What a pile of headaches that would have been.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Just wanted to make a little update:

Today I received my first (of two) parts boards. This one was actually a San Francisco: Rush the Rock board which uses the Flagstaff hardware. Although this isn't the Seattle hardware, these boards appear to use the same R5000 processor and similar speed chip, with the board running at 200mhz. It seemed like a candidate in theory, so for the $30 I paid, I figured it'd be a fairly inexpensive experiment.

I swapped out the slower U50 Seattle chip with the Flagstaff one and the game fired up. Immediately, I noticed it running faster and appeared to be running at the proper speed. I grabbed my video camera and recorded the same attract mode. However, when I synced the video frame-for-frame with my original 200mhz Vapor, I was astonished to discover that it was actually running FASTER with the Flagstaff chip. From the rough math I did with comparing the two, the Vapor with the Flagstaff chip ran roughly 3.8% faster than the other Vapor with the normal 200mhz Seattle chip.

Curious to see if the processor had any effect, I pulled it from the Flagstaff board and swapped them. The result was the same, so that seems to confirm that it is (in fact) only the U50 chip that affects the speed of the board. Pretty interesting stuff.

I have a second parts board coming that contains the Seattle 200mhz U50 chip so I'm certain it'll fix my issue.