Skee-Ball - Victory Roll - late 1940's early 50's

Dr. Spa

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So I was just given a VERY old skee ball machine. Can't find ANYTHING about it on the internet. The name on the back glass is Victory Roll. I find a few adds in Billboard magazine from 1945-48. But, this one is electrical, and I think they didn't start with electro mechanical till 1950, or so.

I found, laying there on the other side of the dark dank basement, two, count em TWO wooden balls. The backglass is a TOTAL write off. I think there's enough there that I can have it reproduced...but I'm scared of the cost (it is though smaller than a pinball backglass). It is an electro-mechanical machine. Lights, contacts, lots of the same stuff as in a pinball machine. It's probably only 6' - 6-1/2' long...but weighs a ton. It's got some rubberized mat on the "field", fairly trashed of course, the netting has mostly rotted away, but the wooden aspect seems to be quite sound and all the electrical mechanicals turn or move freely, as they should. Lots of rat dropping, but nothing looks chewed on or through.

Anyone know ANYTHING or have ANY info on this thing?

I can get better pics tomorrow after I pick it up
 

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Looks like the manufacturer was Pan Coast Amusement Co. Only thing I can find on them is they made a shoe shinning machine. Found a couple of coins under the coin box.
 

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It's also ONLY seven feet long. One person that came just to look at it (he's very close and on the board of directors at an arcade museum) is pretty sure this is a one of a kind prototype made in the early 1940's
 

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Virtually NO info on this Skee Ball on the net...other than a few adds in Billboard from Feb 1945 to ~1948. Someone was actually about to take it to the dump, when I saved it. Needs a LOT of work. The backglass needs to be reproduced (any suggestions on who?) and it currently doesn't even work. Still just getting it cleaned up...got rid of the rat nest ;-) It measures only 7' long, 7-1/2' counting the coin mechanism on the front. 24-1/2" wide, including the legs 27"

Victory Roll by Pan Coast Amusement Co. N.Y.C. The only information I can find on the company is their invention of an automatic shoe shine machine.

This is electrical, with switches, contacts and lights (120v and low voltage lighting the backglass)...my understanding, Skee Ball wasn't electric till about 1950. There's a ton of patent numbers on the nickle coin mech...all dated 1933 - 1936...found a nickle under the coin box dated 1944.

Anyone have ANY clue what so ever on this?

Currently it doesn't even turn on. I have a reasonable understanding, I think, how it works. Pretty simple actually. There's 2 rotating mechanism in the back that operate the lights, indication score and Balls Played. The balls run over switches which rotate the the mechanisms and advance the Balls Played number, and the scoring lights.The coin mechanism has a switch that resets the mechanisms back to their starting point (zero).

The rotating mechanisms and some other moving parts need to be cleaned, as they don't operate freely enough to work properly. Everything is riveted together. Any idea how I can clean them? Spray them with contact cleaner?

The thing doesn't even turn on (I put in a new power cord and repaired a few broken wires). There's 2 aspects to the power supply. A main transformer that I believe has 3 outputs (a most bizarre transformer in deed. Looks like a regular transformer, but sitting on top is a set of 3 coils, powered by the "main transformer" underneath. My guess would be the main transformer puts out a single voltage, feeding the upper 3 coils, each of which then puts out a different voltage) . I believe that the lowest voltage output (lights?) isn't working.

The second aspect, and this is VERY weird, is a model train, "variable" transformer. Yup, think old fashion HO train with the transformer control that had a handle you rotate to make the train go faster or slower. Where the wires are connected It's labeled, 7 - 12v For Tracks. I'm starting to think that this transformer was someone's "hack job" to compensate for the missing voltage of the main transformer.

Any input? Suggestions? Ideas?

So, I have almost everything figured out...except for where the wires are, that send power to the rotating mechanisms to power the light (You'd think that would be simple...I'll figure that out tomorrow).

Turns out, the train transformer powers the 4 magnetic coils. I tried momentarily powering each of the coils, and all 4 are shot....and they're SEVENTY years old. I don't even know if I can get replacements anymore (and there's NO markings on them).

So big question. I have a PILE of pinball machine parts and know I can retrofit the skee ball with them, and get it working as "good as new". I can replace the power supply (multi voltage transformer) with one from a pinball and it'll supply power to the lights and coils no problem. Replacing the coils will be "interesting" as two of them don't have plungers (just magnetic coils that "attract" a bar), and I'd have to retrofit coils with plunger into it. The other two, while they do have plungers, are such a different size, they'll be a job as well. Question is, would doing so vastly devalue the Skee Ball machine?

And, if I'm doing all this, and remember I have to make a reproduction backglass, I could also change out all the light socket and lights to LED's. (I'm not sure the pinball transformer will power the current light bulbs, labeled 6-8v)
 

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I would guess that you will be pretty much on your own, unfortunately. Not sayin' you shouldn't, because that game looks really neat, and I'd love to see it up and running. :)
 
You can definitely just wing it with the coils, they might hit a little softer or harder but you don't have to be spot on for it to work, although it may wear faster if they hit harder and may not work consistently if they're softer. Are they burnt? Are you sure you're testing them correctly? What if you test them with a multimeter? (ohms/resistance, disconnect from the wiring first) Coils don't necessarily "go bad" unless they burn up or break within somehow.

Pinball lights (LEDs included) are indeed 6v, not sure if you were referring/asking about that or the transformer or the current lights it has. :p That part was confusing.
 
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Yeah, assuming you can find coils that fit the mountings, any coil will work, and you may need to adjust the coil to find one that isn't too strong or too weak. 12v for coils is kind of low, however, in today's machines at any rate. Assuming the wiring is secure and isolated from other components, you could get a 20 or 40v transformer, and use modern coils with it. 12v may be too low, and may cause newer coils to have so low resistance that they just draw too much current.

Same with the lights, really - if their circuit is only powering lights (i.e. nothing else is powered off of them), then you could use whatever bulbs you wish, adjusting the transformer as needed then. :)
 
Been working on it for a few days now. Someone GREASED everything, and of course the grease turned into glue after all these years. Took over a day to disassemble and clean everything.

The train transformer DEFINITELY is not an original part of the game. Pretty easy to tell based on the color/style of wiring connected to it and how the wires are spliced into original wiring. Also part of the original transformer rectifier is not putting out power. The 12v from the train trans, while it does make the 4 existing coils "vibrate", they don't fully pull in. It's been suggested that they're probably NOT rater at 12v, more likely 24v. Current plan is to replace both existing transformers with a Williams pinball trans that has both a 24v & 6v output. I have a Bally trans, but the high output is 53v/57v, and I have NO idea if that would burn out the coils. And they're NOT easily replaceable as they're spot welded in and I've never seen anything like them. If i don't have to retrofit different coils in it'll save a couple days of work.

I don't really have much of an understanding on different coils and how different voltages effect them. Gonna have to learn though. I want to add a bell to the scoring aspect. I have a complete bell assemble from a pinball, but it operates off 50+v. Gonna have to find different coil, I guess.

Gonna stick with the original incandescent lights.

Few more pic... Got the old rubber matting off. Looks like it originally was green..too bad I didn't discover that till AFTER I order some, in black ;-)... I might try to find it in green and return the black. Also found a set of balls.
 

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The 12v from the train trans, while it does make the 4 existing coils "vibrate", they don't fully pull in. It's been suggested that they're probably NOT rater at 12v, more likely 24v. Current plan is to replace both existing transformers with a Williams pinball trans that has both a 24v & 6v output. I have a Bally trans, but the high output is 53v/57v, and I have NO idea if that would burn out the coils. And they're NOT easily replaceable as they're spot welded in and I've never seen anything like them. If i don't have to retrofit different coils in it'll save a couple days of work.

Coils usually aren't rated for voltage, per-se - more that they need current. Amperage. The lower the voltage, the higher current is needed. So, for example, you COULD power those with 53v - BUT, if they need a low amount of current, without a limiting resistor or something in-line, the low ohmage of the coil will suck a LOT of current up, and likely could blow out the coil. (Overheat, melt wires, etc.) The train transformer probably doesn't release enough current at 12v to have them operate fully. I would jump up to 20v first, before going all the way up to 50v, really, to prevent overheating or ruining one of those.
 
20v is a bit difficult. I should have a 24v transformer here in a couple of days, and that my current plan.

Actually it has a dual output of 24v / 6v. I need the 6v for the lighting.
 
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