Side Art Adhesion Issues

FrizzleFried

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I have been fighting the Wizard of Wor side art set to stay stuck for over 2 months now... and I am fighting a losing fight. The left side rear toward to the bottom continuously lifts after a day or so of being stuck... and the right side back side also comes up slightly...but not nearly as bad. I've had adhesion issues from the get-go but was told by Darrin that since each side comes from a different batch, it "had" to be me and not his product. He suggested Super 44 (I think that was what it was called)... but I seem to remember Pr0k saying to never use that product. At first the adhesion issue was major....about 50% of the left side and 25% of the right side came up some 24-36 hours after installation. That is when I contacted Darrin. After his suggestion I figured I'd give it one more try ...perhaps I didn't press hard enough, etc... I spend a good 10 minutes per side really pressing down in an attempt to get the side art to stay stuck...I covered every square inch of the side art and it seemed to work. About 3 days later I noticed the issue with the left side...but it was minor...maybe 2 to 3 inches of the back bottom coming maybe a half inch in. The right side stayed stuck. Over the last couple months that very same area had continuously come unstuck no matter how hard I try to press it on there... I'll press...it will stay....hours later it's fine... a day or two later it's up again. The right side takes days to come up, but it eventually does. I've not been in my gameroom in about a week or so and when I checked today the back bottom of the left was unstuck about 4" up and about 2" in...it's getting worse. The right is about the same as usual... very minor along the edge.

The side art was applied to a freshly painted cabinet...days after the paint dried. I told Darrin it was oil-based paint as I usually use oil based paints on my cabs, but that was incorrect... because I matched the color of the control panel artwork, I had to go with latex as that is all they offered for color matching.

What are your opinions in regards to how to keep this freakin' side art stuck? Should I go with the Super 44 stuff? Is there another option? The last time around I tried using a rolling pin to press it down and, well, here we are... should I try to use a hair dryer to warm up the artwork/glue and press? I'm getting a little irked at this and I am sure every time the damn art comes up the glue is getting more and more contaminated with air particles, etc. I just want it to stick for crying out loud.

Help!
 
I would tend to think that if it's not sticking on it's own, no amount of pressure is gonna get it to stick at this point. Only a few options come to mind as to why this wouldn't stay stuck. Possible issue with the side art, cab not prepped and cleaned properly before applying or moisture, either from the environment the game is/was in when the art was applied or even from using the wet method if the moisture was not completely removed. I truly don't know the best method but I have tried the 3M stuff and it seemed to effect the side art. You could visibly see where the 3M glue was. Oddly enough in some circumstances I've used wood glue to glue vinyl that was coming up back to a cab. Doesn't seem to effect the vinyl at all and so far it has stayed in place. Might work for side art on a painted cab? Not sure.

I should mention when I use wood glue I glue down the vinyl letting the extra wood glue come out at the edges. I make sure to have a paper towel handy and quickly wipe away all the excess glue. After the glue is cleaned I use painters tape to hold the vinyl in place. Basically leave this to dry 24hrs. Then carefully remove tape.
 
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I would figure out what glue you want to try..then once applied get some masking tape and tape down the edges that keep rolling up and leave it taped for a few weeks..perhaps the sideart was rolled and the glue didn't grip enough to prevent the decal from taking on the natural state it was originally stored in...
The last time I had this issue I used masking tape after reapplying some glue and when I took the tape off after a few weeks I had no more issues. The glue had time to really set in and the decal flattened out with the help from the masking tape.
 
I have been fighting the Wizard of Wor side art set to stay stuck for over 2 months now... and I am fighting a losing fight. The left side rear toward to the bottom continuously lifts after a day or so of being stuck... and the right side back side also comes up slightly...but not nearly as bad. I've had adhesion issues from the get-go but was told by Darrin that since each side comes from a different batch, it "had" to be me and not his product. He suggested Super 44 (I think that was what it was called)... but I seem to remember Pr0k saying to never use that product. At first the adhesion issue was major....about 50% of the left side and 25% of the right side came up some 24-36 hours after installation. That is when I contacted Darrin. After his suggestion I figured I'd give it one more try ...perhaps I didn't press hard enough, etc... I spend a good 10 minutes per side really pressing down in an attempt to get the side art to stay stuck...I covered every square inch of the side art and it seemed to work. About 3 days later I noticed the issue with the left side...but it was minor...maybe 2 to 3 inches of the back bottom coming maybe a half inch in. The right side stayed stuck. Over the last couple months that very same area had continuously come unstuck no matter how hard I try to press it on there... I'll press...it will stay....hours later it's fine... a day or two later it's up again. The right side takes days to come up, but it eventually does. I've not been in my gameroom in about a week or so and when I checked today the back bottom of the left was unstuck about 4" up and about 2" in...it's getting worse. The right is about the same as usual... very minor along the edge.

The side art was applied to a freshly painted cabinet...days after the paint dried. I told Darrin it was oil-based paint as I usually use oil based paints on my cabs, but that was incorrect... because I matched the color of the control panel artwork, I had to go with latex as that is all they offered for color matching.

What are your opinions in regards to how to keep this freakin' side art stuck? Should I go with the Super 44 stuff? Is there another option? The last time around I tried using a rolling pin to press it down and, well, here we are... should I try to use a hair dryer to warm up the artwork/glue and press? I'm getting a little irked at this and I am sure every time the damn art comes up the glue is getting more and more contaminated with air particles, etc. I just want it to stick for crying out loud.

Help!

It is the paint that is the issue. I have experienced this a couple of times before on a couple of multigame projects, and it is always the paint (When using Latex). For Latex, I always wait about three weeks before I apply artwork. It gives the paint a little while to breathe. Also, I will scuff up the cabinet slightly with a very high grit paper (only under where the artwork is being applied.) And finally.... I do a quick wipedown with Naptha before applying the artwork.

That all being said... For edge problems, I don't use the higher 3m product as it will leave texture as mentioned in a previous post. I use a lightweight spray adhesive that is for construction paper based projects (Don't rememeber the product, but it will have a lower number than the 3m product)...I also have a clean small piece of lexan/plexi that I use with a large clamp (table clamp?-) that is wider than the cabinet. Place the plexi piece right over the corner of the artwork, clamp pn fairly snug, wait 24 hours... done deal.... Haven't had an issue yet since I figured out how to work with the latex paint...

For the record, I ususally use automotive paint and spray in my garage, but during the winter, it isn't an option... Good luck!
 
If you used the 'wet' method you may have used too much soap, another common culprit for something like this is not cleaning the surface before applying or cleaning with a cleaner and not alcohol. All paints outgas and leech a certain amount of oils that must be removed before applying sideart so my personal recommendation is to wipe down with denatured alcohol really well to get rid of all of that prior to applying the art, then, I also recommend against the wet method to avoid turning right around and adding an adhesion retarder right back into the mix in the soap.

At this point, i'm going to say your best bet will bet to just get new sideart, prep the cabinet properly and try it again. Even if you spray super 77 on it the cabinet surface and the artwork surface are already compromised.
 
I applied dry... I also noticed while applying the adhesive seemed much less "sticky" than any other side art I'd installed prior (and I've done my fair share as I am sure you all know). Darrin said it "can't be" his product because each side is done with separate batches... that if it was a bad batch, I'd only have issue with one side, not both.

I'll take the Super 44 comments in to consideration... I do have the next number down as well (Is it 24?)... perhaps I'll try a small experiment with some of that and some of the shelving paper I have to see if it develops a "texture".

After painting I did let it sit 3 or 4 days after it stopped being "tacky"... not 30. And I did not scuff up the area under the art but I DID do a quick wipe down with rubbing alcohol about 30 minutes prior to installation (as I've done with every one my other sides). This IS the first time I've used Latex preferring oil based paint...
 
If you used the 'wet' method you may have used too much soap, another common culprit for something like this is not cleaning the surface before applying or cleaning with a cleaner and not alcohol. All paints outgas and leech a certain amount of oils that must be removed before applying sideart so my personal recommendation is to wipe down with denatured alcohol really well to get rid of all of that prior to applying the art, then, I also recommend against the wet method to avoid turning right around and adding an adhesion retarder right back into the mix in the soap.

At this point, i'm going to say your best bet will bet to just get new sideart, prep the cabinet properly and try it again. Even if you spray super 77 on it the cabinet surface and the artwork surface are already compromised.

New side art isn't an option... any other suggestion?
 
I'd say darin is right, vinyl adhesives rarely if ever fail randomly.. it either all does it or it all does not, there's no one off failures in a run. If all the WoW sideart was failing we'd have heard about it long before now i'm guessing.

But, one curious thing you said, it took the paint 3 days to not be tacky to the touch? How thick did you apply the paint? what method? Latex should be try within hours not days, something happened. Was it straight latex or latex enamel?
 
I'd say darin is right, vinyl adhesives rarely if ever fail randomly.. it either all does it or it all does not, there's no one off failures in a run. If all the WoW sideart was failing we'd have heard about it long before now i'm guessing.

But, one curious thing you said, it took the paint 3 days to not be tacky to the touch? How thick did you apply the paint? what method? Latex should be try within hours not days, something happened. Was it straight latex or latex enamel?


You misunderstood. I let the paint sit 3-4 days after it STOPPED being tacky. The paint dried in about 24 hours or so...
 
Ok yea i did misunderstand. Missed that word :)

Well, I truly hate the sprays for fixing stuff like this because they leave a texture that is all but impossible to avoid. The lower adhesion stuff works great on paper but is not permanent by any means.

My fix recommendation would be to apply new adhesive to the fouled up areas. When I have had lifting like this in the past during restorations where I wanted to preserve the original artwork that had begun to peel I apply fresh double sided adhesive. You're still likely to get a faint line where the new adhesive starts but it's better than having moon rock surface where the spray is.

How long of an area is affected? PM me your address and i'll send you out some adhesive to fix you up.

/b
 
I had the same problem with my GnG artwork. I peeled back the non-sticking area and applied contact cement to both surfaces, the cab area and the artwork. Allowed to dry and then worked it back in place with a squeegee to make sure it was smooth when making contact. You only get one shot as it will stick fast on contact. My art is smooth and has been on the cab since '02 with no issues. The excess contact cement was rubbed off the cab with a finger.
 
+1 on the contact cement. I used Elmer's contact cement from Office Depot. It resolved the issue I had with a corner of my newly installed side art lifting. Everything lays down smooth and the excess rubs off.
 
This is just a suggestion Frizz....but the contact cement seems like the best solution.

Just make sure that you mask down the perimeter of the peeled up artwork with blue painters tape. After you do that, take a fine exacto-knife razor and trace down the edges of the artwork where you just taped. This will allow the artwork to fold back up and the tape remaining on the cab will provide protection from the contact cement that oozes out of the sides providing a barrier that you can peel off after your done.

I'd make sure to clean the exposed portion of the cab under the peeled up artwork to degrease it and prep it for new adhesion with contact cement.

I've never done this method, just works in theory.
 
You might also check out the products for wallpaper border adhesive, specifically for joints or repairs.

I had an old tube sitting around and used it several times on peeling original artwork before it finally dried up and got tossed.
 
This is just a suggestion Frizz....but the contact cement seems like the best solution.

Just make sure that you mask down the perimeter of the peeled up artwork with blue painters tape. After you do that, take a fine exacto-knife razor and trace down the edges of the artwork where you just taped. This will allow the artwork to fold back up and the tape remaining on the cab will provide protection from the contact cement that oozes out of the sides providing a barrier that you can peel off after your done.

I'd make sure to clean the exposed portion of the cab under the peeled up artwork to degrease it and prep it for new adhesion with contact cement.

I've never done this method, just works in theory.

+1... and more text because I can't put just ...+1
 
I actually ended up picking up a piece of 3M adhesive from Pr0k...though i've not had the time to actually "install" it.
 
Super 77, yes 77

Super 77 is your best friend, despite what some of the 'crazies' say on KLOV. Spray both surfaces after cleaning them and let them sit for a bout 1 minute. Then press them together and rub out any bubbles.

good luck.
 
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