Should I buy a programmer?

GoldenAge

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I bought an "untested" Pole Position board set a while back, I finally got around to testing it in my cabinet. Surprisingly, it didn't work! Well, actually it does work partially, just some graphics issues as well as some sounds aren't there. I figured I'd start swapping chips from my working set over to the other set to see if I can isolate faulty components. I'm wondering, supposing I do manage to isolate the issues as being ROMs, should I buy a programmer and learn to use it? It seems like it would be far more cost-effective, especially if I end up like a dozen or more bad ROMs, the cost of having these burned and shipped would get pretty pricey in a hurry.

Are these programmers something that can be used by a layman like myself?
 
You can pick up a GQ-4X either direct from mfgr or off eBay for about $100. Easy to use, free software updates. You'll also way a UV eraser.
 
From what I've read, there are a few different models that are fairly well regarded and reasonably priced. I'm more concerned with the actual process of using them. Is there a good "how to" when it comes to these? What's the process like? I'm guessing the MAME ROMs are used, is this right? How does one ID the specific file(s) that correspond to a specific ROM?

I'm looking for an "intro to burning arcade ROMs 101" sort of thing, if it exists.
 
A programmer goes a long way just for verifying the contents of roms. You'll not use it nearly as much for programming as you will for pulling up checksums. If you plan to keep any old game running you'll not think twice about getting one.
 
If you plan on doing any arcade game repair its a must have tool. Verifying eproms is always the first thing I do before troubleshooting any hardware.
 
If you plan on doing any arcade game repair its a must have tool. Verifying eproms is always the first thing I do before troubleshooting any hardware.

I agree, it is a must have in this hobby. I would say even if you don't plan on doing component level repair it is good to have in case the problem is as simple as a bad rom. It will pay for itself easily.
 
If you plan on doing any arcade game repair its a must have tool. Verifying eproms is always the first thing I do before troubleshooting any hardware.

+1

You can't even START to repair the hardware until you know you have a working program. There are older programmers that work great for roms, Needhams for about $35 dollars but it will NOT do proms. Data I/O is the only one that will do some of the ancient chips but they are rare. The learning curve is very fast and it will probably take you longer to read the manual and set it up than it will to start using them. If you just have a board or two then it might not be worth while.

Here is one I bought recently as a spare and it works great! It does need an older computer but the dump is full of them. The card in that pic needs an isa slot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110943833044?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
 
While you're at it, buy yourself a logic probe. They're very cheap (10 bucks) and after you learn to use it, will be just as valuable as your programmer.
 
For my x-mas list :), what is the difference between the full pack and the light pack for the GQ-4X? I couldn't tell.

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4312
vs.
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282

The full package comes with some adapters and a ic extracter. The light only has the necessities. That's what I have and had no need for any of the adapters yet. Don't forget the uv eraser, and if you don't have and external power supply, you should pick one up. Some chips require that programmer to use an external 9V I believe it is. You can buy cheap universals just about anywhere for 10 or 15 bucks.
 
Agreed, the "light pack" is what you want. The "full" includes crap you'll never need.

The only adapter you might need (if you work on newer PCBs with 16-bit EPROMs) isn't included in the "full" pack. It's this:

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4289

For these EPROMs:
Code:
27C1024,27C2048, 27C4096,27C210,27C2002,27C4002,27C400, 27C800, 27C160, 27C322

Probably not needed if you only work on 80s stuff... probably IS needed if you work on 90s stuff.
 
So any pointers on where I can learn about the actual how-to's of this sort of thing? Or is this a subject that isn't really spoken of due to potential entanglements with copyright issues?
 
So any pointers on where I can learn about the actual how-to's of this sort of thing? Or is this a subject that isn't really spoken of due to potential entanglements with copyright issues?

I can't really remember what sort of manual come with mine, but if you went with the GQ-4X, there are a few little how-to's and tutorials on youtube. Buts in all, it's a fairly simple programmer to use.
 
Or is this a subject that isn't really spoken of due to potential entanglements with copyright issues?

Not that I know of. I talk about it freely. Do you have any specific questions about how to use it?

Clean off all sticker residue before erasing. I clean with alcohol & cotton swabs. Place in the eraser for like 10 mins. Hook up the programmer and start the software. Pull them out of the eraser, put it in the EPROM programmer. Put it in at the bottom edge (leave empty space at the top). Put the notch end up (away from the bottom, near the empty space). Close the ZIF lever. In the EPROM software, select the eprom type. I always try to match the EXACT part number if I can. In cases where I can't, I pick the "generic" type (e.g. 27C512). Then click on the "blank check" button. It will verify that it's blank. If it fails, erase for another 5 mins or so. If it's blank, proceed. Now open/load the file you wish to program onto your EPROM. Click the WRITE button, and watch the progress bar as it programs. It'll only take a fraction of a second for small/old EPROMs, but perhaps a minute or more for giant EPROMs. After it programs, it will automatically verify the data and report the result of the verification. I usually click VERIFY to have it read once more. Done.
 
Thanks for that. I guess my biggest unknown is how to locate the actual software I want to burn. I think MAME files are used, is that right? And if so, is there some sort of map or key in the MAME files that say what data goes on what ROM in what location etc? Also, my MAME versions are circa 2003, I don't think that should matter at all, am I correct in this?

Thanks again,
Ryan
 
Thanks for that. I guess my biggest unknown is how to locate the actual software I want to burn. I think MAME files are used, is that right? And if so, is there some sort of map or key in the MAME files that say what data goes on what ROM in what location etc? Also, my MAME versions are circa 2003, I don't think that should matter at all, am I correct in this?

Yes, the "MAME files" are what you want. They include the EPROM dumps (sometimes among other things). Most of the time, the filenames of the individual files are sufficient to identify where they go on the PCB. Sometimes that match up perfectly with the labels on the originals; sometimes the PCB location (like "3K") is the file extension. Occationally, it's more difficult...

Do you have an example? Are you trying to program like a whole set for a PCB missing all of the EPROMs?

PS--not too much of concequence will have changed since 2003 in the ROMs. Most of the changes are adding bi-polar PROM dumps, and data from custom ICs, and other esoteric shit that doesn't really matter. But many of those old romsets won't work with a current version of MAME, though. Just google the game name and "mame roms" and you should find most of what you'll need...
 
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Thanks for that. I guess my biggest unknown is how to locate the actual software I want to burn. I think MAME files are used, is that right? And if so, is there some sort of map or key in the MAME files that say what data goes on what ROM in what location etc? Also, my MAME versions are circa 2003, I don't think that should matter at all, am I correct in this?

Thanks again,
Ryan

many of us here have the rom files or can find them. I usually download the ones on a board I am working on. I do this when pulling to re seat them and clean the legs. I then put them in the programmer and download the roms to verify later or program a suspect rom chip.

A quick search for the first set of boards I bought to fix gives the rom images for the game Galaga.

http://www.romnation.net/srv/roms/22949/mame/Galaga-Namco.html

If you unzip the file you will notice the names are the roms and locations.
 
Sweet, that's very good info, thanks guys. I feel like I've got my head around the concepts, I'm definitely going to pick up a programmer/eraser and see if I can pick up some of these skills... Good stuff!!
 
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