Sega Turbo PCB Issues

DarthSonic

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I have 3 PCB sets for my Turbo, each one has issues. Now that my monitor works, I can finally get to getting PCBs to work. I'll give info on each PCB set and anyone can help me improve them, it will be greatly appreciated.

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Set 1

Set 1 came with the game. There is no metal box housing the processor, so my guess is that someone replaced the processor and replaced the ROMs with a decrypted set. The traces on the board look in poor condition. Also, I cannot just place these ROMS in another board set because the replacement processor was soldered in place.

IMG_20120628_210729.jpg


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Set 2

Set 2 originally looked pretty good. Everything but the road showed up. However, the game would often glitch and the car would get stuck at the bottom of the screen. I figured the legs on the ROMS were dirty (which they were), so I cleaned the oxidation off of the legs on every socketed chip. I also cleaned oxidation in each socket. After that, upon boot up just the road is showed for a split second. Then some glitchy characters are shown for another split second. After that, there is just a screen filled with the letter 'S'. It also appears that there is the yellow dotted line from the road on the screen when it is filled with 'S'. Note: I only cleaned one at a time and am positive all went back in the same orientation they came out, which was easy since the notches on the chips all face in the same direction.

Before cleaning oxidation:
IMG_20120612_005137.jpg


After cleaning (note the yellow dotted line):
IMG_20120624_164055.jpg


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Set 3

In Set 3, the trees, buildings, and and cars are all missing in action. On the plus side, the game never gets hung up. Actually, with no cars there is nothing to crash into I maxed out the score on this game to see what would happen. To anyone curious, the score just starts over from zero. The in game score stays in sync with the score on the 7 segment display, so the absolute max score is 99999. If you score higher, the recorded score will end up lower since it starts back at 0. Back to the diagnosis. On this board, I went into the games test menu and the RAM tested good. On the ROM test, EPR 1262, EPR 1263, and EPR 1264 all tested good. I have not touched this board other than reseat the ribbon cables.

IMG_20120612_121041.jpg




Thank you to anyone with ideas of what to check or do with any of these boards.
 
Man, I'd swap the hell out of those boards back and forth in each set to see if you can get 1 good one out of three and call it a day!
 
Man, I'd swap the hell out of those boards back and forth in each set to see if you can get 1 good one out of three and call it a day!

Thanks! The only problem is that I don't want to touch that semi-working set right now (it lets me access the test menu). And that leaves the other 2 board sets, one with encrypted ROMs, the other with what I believe to be a decrypted set.

Would replacing the ROM sockets on the board with the S's be worthwhile? Also, should I get new ribbon cables (swapping those between boards changed nothing)?

More importantly, does anyone have a ROM map of exactly what is stored on each ROM? That would help a lot! It would be much easier to look near a specific cluster of chips instead of blindly probing ICs and doing guess and check. I don't own a ROM reader or burner, so it's tough to test my the contents of my EEPROMs.
 
Now playable, still a few issues

I repaired solder joints on the top board (CPU Board) from PCB1 and swapped it with another bottom board (PROM Board). The swap was needed since the original PROM board only allowed cars and trees to show up. The following picture is the result. One building shows up as a solid white box, and sometimes vertical lines show up instead of the wall on the cliff part. Here, you can see there are red lines near the base of the building. Does anyone know what ROM contains this data? There are like 10 EEPROMs listed in the schematics as being trees, buildings, etc. It's a little helpful, but a bit too vague. If anyone knows which EEPROMs are the buildings, I'd appreciate the info!

Aside from these graphics glitches, the only the other problem is the sound board. I connected my iPod to the amp and both the upper speakers and the base sound very clear, so they are not the issue. In game, the lower speaker sounds perfect, but the upper speakers get a lot of feedback. It happens constantly and is very loud, even with the volume pot turned down all the way (the pot worked perfectly fine when my iPod was connected to the game). Only one sound came through on the upper speaker. I re-flowed many solder joints on the sound board. What should I look for on the sound board to get rid of the feedback noise? Also, what would make the volume so much louder when this feedback is going on?

IMG_20120709_210505.jpg
 
It almost sounds like one of the game sounds is messed up, and that's the feedback you're hearing... are there any electrolytic caps on the soundboard?

Keep in mind: Turbo sounds like shit pretty much even when it's fully working. So expect some distortion when you get it going.
 
It almost sounds like one of the game sounds is messed up, and that's the feedback you're hearing... are there any electrolytic caps on the soundboard?

Keep in mind: Turbo sounds like shit pretty much even when it's fully working. So expect some distortion when you get it going.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, there are a bunch of electrolytic caps (probably close to 60). I previously got the board working with no issues by replacing a couple of shorted electrolytic caps. Now that the monitor and main boards work (mostly anyways), the sound board is acting up.

This is a photo of my board. Two electrolytic caps near the 'H' connector have been replaced, as well as a small blue tantalum cap toward the left side of the board. Also, the coating on some of the ceramic disc caps looks to be in rough condition (an issue on those caps?).

I know the sounds aren't that great, but I do love the base when going full throttle through the tunnel!

IMG_20120709_222742.jpg
 
Yup, I like the sound on it too, I was just making sure you realized that it's usually distorted and kind of 'crappy' sounding so dont' look for hi def, lol.

This is another one that you may not want to mess with, but if I recall correctly you can adjust the individual sound's volume independently, can't you? I see 5 (at least) volume controls (I THINK!) on the pcb... have you tried turning each one all the way down, and seeing if your rumble goes away? Then you could figure out which one it's on, and work just that section.

You sound like you're pretty good at this stuff, so I'm sure you know more than I do about them, but I've rarely had a ceramic cap, even when physically damaged that was really bad. If it's split in half (which I've seen) than obviously it's toast, but even with deep gouges and pieces of them crumbling off near the legs they're almost always still good.

Those blue caps you already replaced a couple of? Those go bad all the time on other boards, for instance they're usually shorted on Space Invaders. You found some shorted, but the others could have varying faults that are introducing problems.


If it was me, I'd try to turn all the volumes down and see if any of them affected the feedback. If that didn't narrow it down, I'd replace every single one of the blue caps. If that didn't do it, I'd probably bite the bullet and replace all the electrolytics. Lot of work!

Sega's Zaxxon has a similar problem where some of the sounds dissapear and the only way to fix it is to replace about half the caps. You might want to google that if you haven't read up on it, maybe the boards are similar? they actually look pretty similar so the design of the sound circuits in both games might have similar faults.
 
Turbo PCB Debug

I posted on NEACF my repair log of the Turbo PCB and as per request of Jedidentist, I am copying my post over here for public record. I'm attaching it to my thread looking for help to not create too many threads about the same game.
____________________________________________

A couple weeks ago, I decided to give another look at the 'junk'/parts board that came with my game. Without touching anything, the game looked like this:
IMG_20120628_210729.jpg


I was then looking at random files in the download folder on my computer and found that a while back, I downloaded a set of decrypted eeprom chip data with instructions for replacing the CPU with a generic Z80. Doing so is possible, but three ROMs need to be replaced with a decrypted set. Well, the "parts" set had some newer looking ROMs and was missing the giant metal block over the cpu that my other 2 sets had (Thanks to whoever did the upgrade on this board!!!!). I then reflowed the solder on the processor, which looked perfectly fine to begin with. "What else would cause the processor to act up if the solder is freshly flowed?" My instinct: the traces. I checked continuity between each leg of the processor and somewhere later down the board where the trace leads to. 3 were discontinuous, but the traces looked and tested fine everywhere I could test. Turned out there was nothing left to those three solder pads. The soldering was fine, but there wasn't enough metal left on the board. THis was fixed by running jumper wired directly from the processor legs to somewhere else on the board the trace would go to. The result of doing this:
IMG_20120707_112423.jpg


I then swapped the PROM board (bottom of the 2 large PCBs) from this set (traces on the prom board didn't look to good) with the PROM board of one of my other sets. without anything, the following pic is what the game looked like. Only a couple of graphical issues. One is that the 3rd building is solid white. Also, sometimes the ground to the side of the road has vertical lines. This can be seen below some of the buildings (kind of small tho). This also happens sometimes in the bend where there is a wall on the left and water on the right. The wall to the left sometimes does this. These issues are minor and do not affect gameplay (although I still want them fixed).
IMG_20120709_210505.jpg


In the full schematics for the game, there is a page with all of the EEPROMs listed like I wanted (all 30-something of them). 10 of those are labeled "Back Scene, Bldg., Tree, Etc." At least that cut down the number to look through. I didn't want to do a guess and check though because of the tiny, weak solder pads on this board, specially with how stuck the EEPROMs are and how easily this board flexes. Today, I thought to use the mame set to narrow things down. The only problem is that in mame, all roms need to be there or else the emulator will refuse to attempt running the game. So that brought on another issue: I cannot just remove files from the ROM folder and I don't have an EEPROM reader, so I can't replace the ROMs with images of the ones in my game. The solution? Create a blank document with Notepad and save it with the same name as one of the ROM image files. Also change the name of the file extension from ".txt" to whatever extension that ROM has. Windows gives a warning that changing the file extension may cause a file to become unusable or something like that. Ignore this warning. I moved the correct ROM file out of the mame folder and placed in my dummy file and tested it. MAME warned that one file was different, but still let me play the game. I did this until the third building was missing in MAME. BTW, I found that EPR-1249 contains the first building, EPR-1251 contains the second building, and EPR-1253 contains the third building. I stopped once I found that one. Here is what mame looked like with a blank dummy ROM in the place of EPR-1253 (the third building). Instead of being a giant white box, the building is simply just missing. Also, when I refer to building number, I mean with respect to the start of the race.
IMG_20120720_205821.jpg


I thought I'd share this realization, hopefully it helps others save more boards. Now I know where to look for the graphics issues ;D (well at least the issue with the building). Next up: check continuity with the legs of that chip, and if continuity checks out it will be time to swap that ROM with one from another board.
 
[quote author=DarthSonic link=topic=5744.msg50640#msg50640 date=1342844703]
I thought of this after my last post. To anyone familiar with color codes, I believe the modern color code for white is FFFFFFh (should be similar to whatever color code system was used back then), which translates to all 1's in binary. A 1 in binary means 5V, so the processor is probably reading a constant 5V from the EEPROM that is generating the solid white building (unless the board uses negative logic, and then it is reading a constant 0V). I'm not sure how helpful knowing this will be when I take another look at the game, but it can't hurt to know.
[/quote]

Good news everyone! This guess was right, the processor was reading a constant voltage. Two pins were bent on EPR-1253 (the one MAME indicated was bad).
IMG_20120729_190339.jpg


I unbent them and reseated the chip, and this was the result. The third building now shows up!
IMG_20120729_192403.jpg


I also scored 18525 in my first play since the fix!
IMG_20120729_192701.jpg


To make matters even better, I tried my spare sound board again (which previously only gave static) and it worked! I may have to turn the pot that controls the sound in the tunnel since this board outputs that sound very softly (I like the echo sound loud).

The only issue now is that after being on for about 10 minutes or so, the ground on the side of the road turns to vertical bars with a black background. The cause: all of the ceramic caps that litter the board between power and ground. They act as filters as the voltage changes to smooth out the transition between 5V and ground and vice versa. I felt a little heat coming from the board, so used a laser thermometer to check where the heat was coming from. It turns out, most heat is coming from a few of these ceramic caps. Some only reach 82 degrees F, but a few reach 103 degrees F. I clipped one leg off one of these 103 degree caps (with the power off) but that made the lines show up right away on the background. Looks like this board needs a full recap :-\. It will be a lot of work, but it isn't worth playing with weak caps. I'd rather replace caps now than end up needing a whole bunch of parts (including more caps) when some decide to go completely. For those who've never seen a Turbo PCB, below is a pic of a spare CPU board I have. There is another board that contains mostly EPROMs below it that is the same size. The ceramic caps are all of those small brown ones between pretty much every IC on the board. I will end up replacing them all at some point to fix this last issue. I'm also planning on recapping both of my sound boards (pending the cost of all those caps).
IMG_20120729_195104.jpg


So the game now plays great (aside from the bars due to weak caps). I will update you all again when I get around to replacing the caps. Once that is done, the game *should* be at 100% ;D. There is an oddity tho, I previously upped the voltage on the switcher (new by the way) to around 5.08V, but now it is only at 4.95V. My guess is that there is an increase in current (due to caps) so the switcher lowered its voltage to limit the current. Not too worried about this though since I'll be replacing the cause of this (and because it still plays).
 
A couple of NEACF members then pointed out that ceramics are durable and that 100 degrees Fahrenheit was a safe temp for them to be operating at and that the edge connector was the problem. The following was my response:
_________________________________

Thanks for the input guys! I didn't realize that ceramic were that durable. I ended up pulling the two ceramic caps completely with the intent to replace them both. I only ended up replacing one of the two since I was having trouble removing solder from the holes and I didn't want to burn the tiny solder pads (my soldering iron isn't temperature controlled). This was no big deal since there are so many and they all filter between +5V and ground.

It turns out that I cleaned the EPROMs and edge connector for a different board set and didn't think of doing the same to this one. It took a while since so many were EPROM legs were burnt, but it was worth it in the end. There were no glitches even after a solid 30 minutes of being powered on. I adjusted the monitor completely except for the horizontal width (adjusts how tall the game is since the monitor is turned on its side) because my monitor adjustment tool kit doesn't have the right size for the width coil. The following are pics of what the game now looks like after the 30 minutes of being on. All of the graphical glitches are gone including the tiny red lines under the buildings! Note: the vertical lines in the photos are not visible in person.

1344390020894.jpg


1344390038856.jpg


Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions and advice!
 
Nice Job!
I just picked up a Turbo myself, and did a whole bunch of work. Got the game running, all lights, scoreboard, etc. However just like yourself I have no cars or buildings. I tried reading this whole thread, but it got way over my head with the tech stuff. If I understand correctly, you just pulled, cleaned, & re-seated the chips on the prom board? Im really just looking for a place to start.
 
Nice Job!
I just picked up a Turbo myself, and did a whole bunch of work. Got the game running, all lights, scoreboard, etc. However just like yourself I have no cars or buildings. I tried reading this whole thread, but it got way over my head with the tech stuff. If I understand correctly, you just pulled, cleaned, & re-seated the chips on the prom board? Im really just looking for a place to start.

Thanks! Cleaning the chips will not hurt, just be careful as the solder pads on the circuit board itself are very weak and break off easily. Also be careful where the chips go (location and orientation of the chip). The CPU board I fixed had a a lot of damaged traces on its corresponding PROM board. After I fixed the CPU board, I swapped the PROM board with one of my extra board sets (which I have 2 of, neither work properly). I can't remember which one I swapped boards with, so I cannot give a definitive answer as to what fixed which problem.

Now where nothing shows up (as opposed to a single issue), I would say that the source of your problem lies within something the PROM (socketed) chips all have in common. The chips are likely powered from the same trace on the board. Unfortunately, it would be tough to test the voltage at the chips with the board being on since the boards need to be stacked to run. You should check the voltages at the CPU board regardless as the PROM board cannot have the correct voltages if the CPU board is wrong. Check with your multimeter probes on the board and not the connector that plugs into the board. The other possibility is the data path is being blocked. Both power and data travel between boards via the ribbon cables. You should reseat those many times as they tend to be so oxidized that it is tough to unplug them. I would start there and see if anything changes. After checking power and reseating connectors, I would thoroughly inspect all the traces and solder joints with a magnifying glass as one could be damaged. Let me know how that all goes, and if there is still a problem I may be able to think of more things to try. If it gets fixed, I would like to know that too!

On another note, a new graphical glitch popped up on my game where the red and white striped line is jagged instead of being a straight line. I haven't had much time to work on it lately, but will post more info with the fix for that issue when I get a chance to fix it.
 
I had tried to unplug & re plug all the ribbon cables to no success. So from there I popped out each prom on the first board. Upon inspection, they all looked fine, of course the prongs were dull looking, but nothing I havent seen before. Anyways I took a wire grill brush to them ever so gently until I shined them up, then blew them off with compressed air, and popped every single one back in. Wouldnt you know... the damn thing worked! All cars & buildings, trees, etc. I couldnt believe it. All it needed was an age related freshening up. I never get that lucky, so tonight Im going to buy a lotto ticket too :D

The only other issue I have now is the upper speakers (mini cabaret cab). I get absolutely no sound from either, and I only get the engine/crash sound from the bottom speaker, so hopefully it's not the sound board. The upper speakers are reading "0" ohms on the left and an erratic 8 ohms on the right. I'm gonna replace both, maybe the pots too just as a good faith measure. But the sounds i'm missing are the ones that play out the top, and im praying a fresh set of speakers will solve that problem, and that it's not a soundboard issue.
 
I had tried to unplug & re plug all the ribbon cables to no success. So from there I popped out each prom on the first board. Upon inspection, they all looked fine, of course the prongs were dull looking, but nothing I havent seen before. Anyways I took a wire grill brush to them ever so gently until I shined them up, then blew them off with compressed air, and popped every single one back in. Wouldnt you know... the damn thing worked! All cars & buildings, trees, etc. I couldnt believe it. All it needed was an age related freshening up. I never get that lucky, so tonight Im going to buy a lotto ticket too :D

The only other issue I have now is the upper speakers (mini cabaret cab). I get absolutely no sound from either, and I only get the engine/crash sound from the bottom speaker, so hopefully it's not the sound board. The upper speakers are reading "0" ohms on the left and an erratic 8 ohms on the right. I'm gonna replace both, maybe the pots too just as a good faith measure. But the sounds i'm missing are the ones that play out the top, and im praying a fresh set of speakers will solve that problem, and that it's not a soundboard issue.

Congrats on the fix! The dull looking oxidation doesn't allow electricity to flow. For good measures, you should clean up the pins that all of the white connectors plug into. My game would run fine for about 20 minutes, but after that a couple of graphical glitches would pop up. I cleaned the pins and the game ran perfectly fine (left it on for 2 hours to test it). Good luck on winning the lottery!

Replacing both speakers and the pots are a good place to start. There is a way to test the amp once you replace the speakers. I wouldn't keep the game running with a blown speaker just in case it weakens the amp. There is a headphone plug you can buy at Radio Shack (pictured below, it will be in the parts drawers at Radio Shack). Alternatively, you could cut the cord off of a pair of broken headphones and use that.
0410112208.jpg

I disconnected Connector F which carries signal from the sound board to the amplifier. Using the above connector, I wired my iPod to one of the amp inputs. When the game was powered on, I could hear music through the upper speaker(s). I then powered down the game and moved the wires to the other amp input. Upon power up, I could hear the music coming from the lower speaker. The music was surprisingly clear from each speaker. If you do this test, it will tell you if the amplifier is good or not. Hopefully the only issue is the speaker and not the sound board. They can be a pain to debug. If the sound board is giving you troubles after that, reflow all of the solder on the sound board. If the problems continue, you may need to replace the electrolytic capacitors and possibly the pots that are on the sound board itself. Best of luck, and keep me posted!
 
Took a better look at the speakers, they're shot. The paper element just crumbles in addition to the ohm issues. I've found replacements online, but they all come "shielded" now which adds extra depth to the speaker causing it to not fit in the cabaret mini cab. I need to do some looking around. Im gonna be positive and say that my sound issues are a direct result of blown speakers, either way im gonna need them. I'll keep you posted.
 
Got the new speakers, and voila! It works great!!! Now the game is at 100%, however for a brief moment after about 20 min or so the cars & buildings/trees went out until I "love tapped" the side of the cabinet, then they all came back.
I found this game and another abandoned in the corner of an old church garage (my current jobsite) where it had been sitting for 15yrs or so I was told. Out of curiosity I asked about it, like how long has it been sitting there, does it work, what's it future, etc. I told him how I collect, and resurrect, and I asked him if he would consider getting rid of it, or if he had plans to junk it, and thankfully he wanted more space in his garage. The grounds keeper gave it to me without hesitation, or even asking for a price, so I took it on a whim (along with a Time Pilot in the same bad condition) with the intent to hopefully fix or sell, and to be truthful I thought the game was going to be terrible. But.... after it has been fixed with all sounds working, all cars, etc, it's really growing on me. There's something so simple about it that makes it seriously addicting. Now i'm really liking it.
 
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Got the new speakers, and voila! It works great!!! Now the game is at 100%, however for a brief moment after about 20 min or so the cars & buildings/trees went out until I "love tapped" the side of the cabinet, then they all came back.
I fiddled with the board stack on mine once, and got all S's on the screen. I was worried I fried something, but pushing on all the chips and reseating the connectors fixed it.

... so I took it on a whim (along with a Time Pilot in the same bad condition) with the intent to hopefully fix or sell, and to be truthful I thought the game was going to be terrible. But.... after it has been fixed with all sounds working, all cars, etc, it's really growing on me. There's something so simple about it that makes it seriously addicting. Now i'm really liking it.

Growing up I didn't love Turbo as much as I do Pole Position, but after owning one I really enjoy it. It took me a long time to get into Enduro for the Atari 2600, so I guess it makes sense that I would enjoy Turbo as well. Ultimately the draw for me as a kid was all of the gauges and displays.

At some point I need to figure out what's going on with my sound board. Resisting the urge to shotgun all of the electrolytic caps, although something tells me that a cap is shorted. All in good time. I am happy to hear that your game is working 100%.
 
have to give this a read, i have a board set with no cars, buildings, and yet runs, other boards crash as such within a short while, I love this game and hope to get it running so I can play it for more than 10mins
 
Got the new speakers, and voila! It works great!!! Now the game is at 100%, however for a brief moment after about 20 min or so the cars & buildings/trees went out until I "love tapped" the side of the cabinet, then they all came back.
I found this game and another abandoned in the corner of an old church garage (my current jobsite) where it had been sitting for 15yrs or so I was told. Out of curiosity I asked about it, like how long has it been sitting there, does it work, what's it future, etc. I told him how I collect, and resurrect, and I asked him if he would consider getting rid of it, or if he had plans to junk it, and thankfully he wanted more space in his garage. The grounds keeper gave it to me without hesitation, or even asking for a price, so I took it on a whim (along with a Time Pilot in the same bad condition) with the intent to hopefully fix or sell, and to be truthful I thought the game was going to be terrible. But.... after it has been fixed with all sounds working, all cars, etc, it's really growing on me. There's something so simple about it that makes it seriously addicting. Now i'm really liking it.

That's awesome news, congratulations!!! Needing a "love tap" tells me that there is either more oxidation somewhere or a bad solder joint that needs touching up.

I fiddled with the board stack on mine once, and got all S's on the screen. I was worried I fried something, but pushing on all the chips and reseating the connectors fixed it.

Growing up I didn't love Turbo as much as I do Pole Position, but after owning one I really enjoy it. It took me a long time to get into Enduro for the Atari 2600, so I guess it makes sense that I would enjoy Turbo as well. Ultimately the draw for me as a kid was all of the gauges and displays.

At some point I need to figure out what's going on with my sound board. Resisting the urge to shotgun all of the electrolytic caps, although something tells me that a cap is shorted. All in good time. I am happy to hear that your game is working 100%.

That's good info on the S's, it seems to be a common issue! As far as the sound board, I had a shorted cap. It was between power and ground (across the voltage regulator on the board). Actually, the power supply circuit board (next to the sound amp) also has two voltage regulators attached to heat sinks. One of them was getting very hot. Voltage regulators will limit their output current and absorb the power they would have sent out. This sent me looking, which led me to the issue on the sound board (at this point, nothing in my cab worked). On the sound board, I started testing for a short with my multimeter. I got 0.7 ohms everywhere. To find the cap that was shorted, I tried something risky (**Warning: Attempting this could damage the board worse**). First, I completely removed the sound board from the cabinet. I then used a bench power supply with a current limit of 1 Amp, although you may want to start with a lower current limit (setting the current limit is important!). I then set the voltage to what it was supposed to be to power the board. After that, I checked for voltage drops. I did this because the multimeter is more accurate measuring voltage drops than resistance and because it has better resolution when measuring voltage drops. The cap with the smallest voltage drop across it was the culprit of the short. I replaced the cap and the board worked! Again, using this method to find a shorted cap is risky. Do not use a voltage source without a current limit or else you will likely burn traces on the circuit board.


have to give this a read, i have a board set with no cars, buildings, and yet runs, other boards crash as such within a short while, I love this game and hope to get it running so I can play it for more than 10mins

Read through everything, and you may find your problem. On the board that runs for 10 minutes, I would suspect oxidation on the edge connectors and on the socketed chips. More resistance (from the oxidation) leads to heat, and heat leads to more resistance essentially making the voltage supplied to chips decrease after 10 minutes. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
It's good to hear these turbo boards getting fixed, I loved this game as a kid and never really cared much for pole position. Hope to own a turbo one day providing I have room :/
 
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