Seeburg M100C Fun!

Interesting problems:
I can play some A side songs just fine. But it doesn't reset them, so it plays them again and again.

I think this is due to either a bad solenoid (or connections to the solenoid)

Now I have the same problem on the B side.

The record not rejecting was fixed by adjusting the wire for the trip switch actuator.

The way the select / played deselect works is:
Drop a quarter.
Select songs. As you select, the selector pulls the tab towards the outside.

Once the song is played, before the carriage moves, the solenoid on the contact block resets the selection.

Do I have this right? I have read the manual from cover to cover. It isn't clear.
 
Interesting problems:
I can play some A side songs just fine. But it doesn't reset them, so it plays them again and again.

I think this is due to either a bad solenoid (or connections to the solenoid)

Now I have the same problem on the B side.

The record not rejecting was fixed by adjusting the wire for the trip switch actuator.
Have you tried manually flipping the reject lever? Does it replay again? When you say it plays again and again, is it putting the record back and pulling it up again?
 
Have you tried manually flipping the reject lever? Does it replay again? When you say it plays again and again, is it putting the record back and pulling it up again?
Yes, it is putting the record back, and then pulling it and playing again.

It doesn't seem as if the reset is kicking the selection back out. I have repeated this numerous times.

Neither of the solenoids (A side, B side) to kick the selection out post song seem to be working.

I did pull the Jones plugs apart (power off) and put them together 4 times to try to clean them up a bit.

I can disrupt this if I reach into the select-o-matic, and flip a downstream switch.
 
Any thoughts? I'm trying to find which connection has the reset solenoid wires on it. The wiring diagram on these is just not that good.
 
Here is where I am today (finally getting time to get back to this)

The Popularity Solenoid and Cancel Solenoids are NOT firing.

I did check the alignment on the SC, C, IC, LC and RC contacts, and cleaned them with a flex file. They are making good contact.

I can call records, but unless the calls are manually reset, it just plays the last selection.

My next effort will be to measure carefully the voltage to LC/RC at 25 volts AC - if no volts, check back from there. If there are 25VAC, check to see if it is going where it should next.

The commonality as I understand it is the Popularity Solenoid and Cancel Solenoids are connected.

Any suggestions on weak links where I should look?

I did find this on another forum, which is illuminating:

The cancel circuit is a very clever use of the switches to produce a brief (<1 sec) pulse on the cancel/pop coils. As the switch cam moves into play, first the C contacts close, while the SC contacts are still closed, to provide a path to ground. As the cam moves further, the lever then opens the SC contacts. So the current only flows during the interval when C and SC are both closed. Also, the IC contacts on the reset lever switch are in series to only allow the cancel pulse to conduct to ground when going into play, and not again when coming out of play.

To test this, with power off, measure resistance with your meter on the IC contact (top leave, blade 1, has two wires) to ground. You may see a low resistance to ground, but when the switches activate you should see very low resistance to ground (whatever your meter leads are, typically <1 ohm). Trip the mech manually and turn the turntable to slowly cycle the mech into play. If you don't see the low resistance on the meter, there's still something wrong with the switches C/SC or IC or wiring to them.

Also note that the 'hot' side or 25VAC is supplied thru the service switches to the cancel/pop coils thru the reversing switch contacts LC/RC. With power on and nothing moving, use your DVM to make sure you see 25VAC to ground on the common (middle) leaf of LC/RC.

ALWAYS be careful around the mech switches when power is on - there is 120VAC line voltage present in many locations!

-Tony < Original poster
 
Interesting problems:
I can play some A side songs just fine. But it doesn't reset them, so it plays them again and again.

I think this is due to either a bad solenoid (or connections to the solenoid)

Now I have the same problem on the B side.

The record not rejecting was fixed by adjusting the wire for the trip switch actuator.

Just read the thread again, and this makes me think that it's LC & RC on the reversing switch that need cleaning. It directs the Cancel Solenoids and Popularity Solenoid.

IMG_1020.jpeg
 
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Thanks - I agree.

I used a flex file on those contacts yesterday. I'll go back after them again today.

I plan to check that I have 25 VAC on the center contact. If that is good, I'll check the voltage drop between each leg.

Actually, I'll start with it unplugged, and go after the resistance checks first. Then flex file as needed.

What's troubling is the amount of oil in this area. The contact set looks like it has a thin sheen of oil on it.
 
Just read the thread again, and this makes me think that it's LC & RC on the reversing switch that need cleaning. It directs the Cancel Solenoids and Popularity Solenoid.

View attachment 827869
Update. I burnished the LC/RC contacts. I was able to see 0.1 ohms when they were closed.

I did get voltage on the center contact around 29 vac. However, I still get no pickup of either the Popularity or Reset coil.

I removed the back side (closest to the door) reset coil, to make sure it wasn't jammed up. It had a spring on top of the solenoid slug, and then a return spring around the pointed spring.

Some of the Popularity reels were sticky. I ran them back and forth, still no action.

WTH?
 
That just means you follow the grounding path. Clean these contacts next:
It's probably a timing adjustment on the break/make/break of SC/C. Adjustment Procedure is on page 2226 of the service manual.


IMG_1022.jpeg
 
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I found a resistor across contacts on the Cam switch which is broken. Silver green red and the rest is missing.

On page 2228, it looks like this is R1, 1500 ohms, 1 watt. I'm sure I don't have one of those in stock.

I also see a potential cold solder joint on the bottom lug on the cam switch.

I have 1C reading low ohms.
 
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It's now working apart from the J selections.

If I call them, it doesn't respond or gives me a different song. e.g., call J3, it call C3 and doesn't reset.
 
Update: I'd say I'm 95% there. J and K selections are not working at all. It will eat the credit, but not issue any songs.

On occasion, the song won't clear once it is called. It seems to be getting better with use.

I now have 4 issues left:
1. The wheels - whoever put wheels on this did it wrong - the wheels tip making it impossible to move easily.
2. The right light column is stuck.
3. J and K calls not responding. This is the big one.
4. Replace the 1500 ohm 1 watt resistor that is broken on the Cam switch. I'll look and see if I have it - NOPE, I have a 2.2K 1 watt, but not a 1500 / 1.5K 1 watt.
 
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Here is the cracked off resistor and cold solder joint on the cam switch.

1750560381200.png

An image further out showing the entire switch.

1750560412334.png

Looks like a cold solder joint.

1750560439791.png
 
When you say J&K are not working… if you manually flick the pin on the pinbank, will it play & then trigger the cancel solenoid?
 
When you say J&K are not working… if you manually flick the pin on the pinbank, will it play & then trigger the cancel solenoid?
Correct.

If I call them from the select matrix, I get something else.
 
One other thing I should add:
When I call J3, I get C3 for some reason. It sounds like a short possibly.

I didn't go through the entire J and K selections, but I chose several. The weird one is J3 which calls C3, which is a song I don't enjoy.

I found the selector troubleshooting section. I'll be working through that next.
 
One other thing I should add:
When I call J3, I get C3 for some reason. It sounds like a short possibly.

I didn't go through the entire J and K selections, but I chose several. The weird one is J3 which calls C3, which is a song I don't enjoy.

I found the selector troubleshooting section. I'll be working through that next.
Looks like Page 46 in the selection system troubleshooting chart,
One entire group of levers fail to operate. (Example: all levers in C -D group fail to operate.)

Solutions (k) and (l)
k - Open Group Coil
l - Open circuit to Group coil
 
When you say J&K are not working… if you manually flick the pin on the pinbank, will it play & then trigger the cancel solenoid?
Given what I came up with, do you believe I'm on the right track?

I see my next action as pulling the select matrix out.

3 screws per side - the two on the ends that center it, and the two that tie it to the plate in the back on each side, correct?
 
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Given what I came up with, do you believe I'm on the right track?

I see my next action as pulling the select matrix out.

3 screws per side - the two on the ends that center it, and the two that tie it to the plate in the back on each side, correct?
Sound right. Can't remember if you have to remove the chrome glass guides, or not. Could just be the 3 above and 4 inside.


yep, "3 screws above the selector buttons and 4 screws at the back of the selector escutcheon" page 3042, top left paragraph.
 
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If you haven't disassembled it already, try cleaning pin 25 on the rectangle plug S1. It handles both J & K.

IMG_1024.jpeg
 
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