Satan's Hollow Connections

D_Harris

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It's time for me to make up a shopping list of all the parts I need for my Satan's Hollow boardset.

I've never seen all the PCBs connected and therefore don't know what is supposed to be connected to what between the main PCBS, audio PCB, and power supply PCB so I can determine what connectors and cables I need to get to make a "Satan's Hollow to JAMMA" adaptor for plugging the game into a JAMMA cabinet.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
See the cabinet wiring diagram (link, page 97). You'll need to hookup:

- Power on J1. Needs +5 / +12. Think it's a 20 position 0.156 connector.
- Video on J2. Think it's a 9 position 0.100 connector.
- Sound on J3. Needs an external pot, or there's space to install one on-board. It's line-level out so you need an audio amplifier between the PCB and the speaker. Think it's a 9 position 0.100 connector.
- Control panel inputs on J4. Think it's a 19 position 0.100 connector.
- Cabinet outputs on J5. On this game it's only a coin counter. Think it's a 23 position 0.100 connector.

Sounds like you have the PCB in-hand so check the pin count and sizes before ordering connectors.
 
Can anyone post any pics showing how the PCBs are connected?

I have the general instructions, but that has little info, and the pin-outs at Crazy Kong are of little help and don't seem to correspond to the PCBs I have.

The top PCB of the 3 board stack has an edge connector as well as four pin connectors. The other two boards also have edge and pin connectors.

I don't have a Satan's Hollow cabinet, so basically I'll have to make a JAMMA adaptor, and I have no idea how to fit in the original 90412 power supply and Dual PWR AMP.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 

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Here are some pics. The wiring harness had 5 connections to the stack. There are 3 on the SSIO (top): J5, J3, & J4. The CPU board (middle), has the big connector (J1) on one side and the video out (J2) on the other. There are no harness connections on the Video Gen board (bottom).

To stack the boards, if they are laid out as in my picture, the video board (left) would fold on top of the cpu (middle). Then the SSIO (right) would fold under the cpu. If yours don't have PCB standoffs, you can get them from Bob Roberts.

The sideart is so awesome that I had to take I pic while I had it turned around :)

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Can anyone post any pics showing how the PCBs are connected?
There's a wiring diagram in the MCR schematics -- you should use it. But I took your photos and laid-out a basic diagram to help you visualize it.
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The top PCB of the 3 board stack has an edge connector as well as four pin connectors. The other two boards also have edge and pin connectors.
The edge connectors are not used for anything. Use the pin connectors.

I don't have a Satan's Hollow cabinet, so basically I'll have to make a JAMMA adaptor, and I have no idea how to fit in the original 90412 power supply and Dual PWR AMP.
The 90412 power supply requires specific AC voltages off of an original MCR transformer assembly. If you cannot do not have a transformer assembly then you cannot use the 90412. Instead you would need to hook everything up to a switching power supply. There's an adapter for sale (see here) for use with a typical arcade power supply.

EDIT: Actually that adapter is designed to use an AC voltage off the transformer assembly, so even that is probably unusable if you don't have a transformer assembly. You'd need to do your own wiring straight to a switching power supply.
 

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To stack the boards, if they are laid out as in my picture, the video board (left) would fold on top of the cpu (middle). Then the SSIO (right) would fold under the cpu. If yours don't have PCB standoffs, you can get them from Bob Roberts.
If you ever need MCR standoffs again, I think they're all the same height. I used:

- Mouser 534-8419. 1-1/8" Aluminum standoff.
- Mouser 534-1813. 5/8" Aluminum standoff.

These are so much better than the original plastic garbage.
 
Cool, thanks for the standoff links. But the edge connectors do serve a purpose, to hold the board in place with the mounting bracket :D
 
There's a wiring diagram in the MCR schematics -- you should use it. But I took your photos and laid-out a basic diagram to help you visualize it.
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I post pics of what I have in my first post, but now they are gone. (I'll trying again).

After I blew up the PDF to where I could actually see everything and scrolling all over the place on my PC which tends to take anywhere from 5 to 15 seconds to update after each mouse click if at all, I gave up.

Basically, I'm having difficulty correlating the schematics to what I have. Now I assume "Power Chassis" means transformer assembly.

The biggest problem is determining what each individual pin is for. For instance, on my power supply PCB has three pins. "1" is silk screen, so I assume by default "2" is the pin next to it. On the schematics it appears that that pin is actually "3". All the other connections are even more difficult to determine.
The edge connectors are not used for anything. Use the pin connectors.


The 90412 power supply requires specific AC voltages off of an original MCR transformer assembly. If you cannot do not have a transformer assembly then you cannot use the 90412. Instead you would need to hook everything up to a switching power supply. There's an adapter for sale (see here) for use with a typical arcade power supply.

EDIT: Actually that adapter is designed to use an AC voltage off the transformer assembly, so even that is probably unusable if you don't have a transformer assembly. You'd need to do your own wiring straight to a switching power supply.

This PCB set is becoming a nightmare. I can't even get to the point of determining what connectors to order. No one told me in my other thread that an "original MCR transformer assembly" was needed. Only to avoid audio issues I needed to forget using a switching power supply.

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=200335

So I guess that I can't use a Pac-man transformer assembly and will now have to put out feelers for the original one.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 

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This PCB set is becoming a nightmare.
You may have gotten more-useful answers originally if you said "I want to construct an MCR-to-JAMMA adapter" in that thread instead of asking "Has anyone run Satan's Hollow with a switching power supply". Reading your original post I would assume that you had a dedicated game and wanted to change the power supply because you couldn't figure out how to fix it.

MCR games are a pain... and you don't even have the original cabinet? Yes your project will probably be a giant headache.

- Paper manual/schematic is available (ebay, ebay) and may be faster-to-use and clearer than the PDF.
- The bigger (power) connectors look like Molex KK 0.156 (link). You'd need to measure and verify. The 20-pos is extremely wide; not sure if you'll be able to purchase that.
- The smaller (video, controls) connectors look like Molex KK 0.100 (link). You'd need to measure and verify. The 19-pos and 23-pos are extremely wide; not sure if you can purchase these either.
- Forget about the 90412 power supply. You said you're making an MCR-to-JAMMA adapter and JAMMA provides the required +5/+12 on the connector. Only way the 90412 seems useful is if you had an AC transformer assembly from the original cabinet, got rid of your JAMMA harness, and recreated the exact wiring like you'd find in a dedicated cabinet.
- Yes there's some risk of noise/hum if you're not installing this in the original cabinet with original wiring. The MCR design has problems so this is an open-ended topic.
- Google found a pinout (here) for your game. You'll be constructing a wiring harness with approximately 10 connections total among the JAMMA fingerboard, MCR PCB, audio amplifier, speakers, and monitor.

Hopefully your PCB is tested and working. It would be even more frustrating if you went through all this effort and the PCB were non-operational.
 
It could just be the light, but from your picture, I'd be leery of your interconnect cables. The one in the upper right looks damaged.

You might want to avoid some headaches by buying replacement ones (most people use short SCSI cables).
 
You may have gotten more-useful answers originally if you said "I want to construct an MCR-to-JAMMA adapter" in that thread instead of asking "Has anyone run Satan's Hollow with a switching power supply". Reading your original post I would assume that you had a dedicated game and wanted to change the power supply because you couldn't figure out how to fix it.
It would make no difference because either way because it came down to what the best option was for powering the board set without the audio problem.

The topic was using a switching power supply with Satan's Hollow because at the time I didn't have the MCR power supply PCB and I was hoping that I could get by with just a switching power supply.

But the posters convinced me that the only way to get around the audio hum was to get an original MCR power supply for the audio. (And I wanted to use a switching power supply for everything else).

Now this thread is about making a JAMMA adaptor, and in order for me to make a JAMMA adaptor I'd have to figure out how the game is supposed to be wired first.

That is why every pin that is used has to be accounted for, as far as exactly what each carries, and I can't determine this by looking at those schematics.
MCR games are a pain... and you don't even have the original cabinet? Yes your project will probably be a giant headache.

- Paper manual/schematic is available (ebay, ebay) and may be faster-to-use and clearer than the PDF.
On the contrary. I have that and the writing is too small for me to see, which is why I'm forced to do things the hard way with a the PDF file.
- The bigger (power) connectors look like Molex KK 0.156 (link). You'd need to measure and verify. The 20-pos is extremely wide; not sure if you'll be able to purchase that.
- The smaller (video, controls) connectors look like Molex KK 0.100 (link). You'd need to measure and verify. The 19-pos and 23-pos are extremely wide; not sure if you can purchase these either.
I'll figure out the name of each connector I need. What's important is what is connected to what. But before I can get to that part I have to determine the pin numbers. Every pin in every conenctor is supposed to have a number.
- Forget about the 90412 power supply. You said you're making an MCR-to-JAMMA adapter and JAMMA provides the required +5/+12 on the connector. Only way the 90412 seems useful is if you had an AC transformer assembly from the original cabinet, got rid of your JAMMA harness, and recreated the exact wiring like you'd find in a dedicated cabinet.
So basically it comes down to original transformer and wiring map or JAMMA with audio hum.
- Yes there's some risk of noise/hum if you're not installing this in the original cabinet with original wiring. The MCR design has problems so this is an open-ended topic.
Well, there does seem to be some disagreement on whether it is possible to avoid the hum altogether.
- Google found a pinout (here) for your game. You'll be constructing a wiring harness with approximately 10 connections total among the JAMMA fingerboard, MCR PCB, audio amplifier, speakers, and monitor.
As I mentioned, those Crazy Kong pin-outs haven't helped. Even if I narrowed each pin down to the board connector, each pin in that connector is not labeled.
Hopefully your PCB is tested and working. It would be even more frustrating if you went through all this effort and the PCB were non-operational.

I am actually operating under the assumption that it is not working. The other alternative is to toss the board set in the trash.

It could just be the light, but from your picture, I'd be leery of your interconnect cables. The one in the upper right looks damaged.

You might want to avoid some headaches by buying replacement ones (most people use short SCSI cables).

Yes, those 24-pin cables are toast. I wasn't able to find any cables on Ebay, so I'm still looking for those also.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
But the posters convinced me that the only way to get around the audio hum was to get an original MCR power supply for the audio. (And I wanted to use a switching power supply for everything else).
Using an original power supply for audio (+12v) and a separate power supply for game logic (+5/+12) seems more likely to cause a ground loop and noise. The benefits of the original design are probably lost once as you're hooking it up the way you describe.

I suspect the responses would be different if every responder was clear that you did not have the original cabinet, and that you were trying to cobble something together. The concerns cannot be summed up in one or two sentences.

I'll figure out the name of each connector I need. What's important is what is connected to what. But before I can get to that part I have to determine the pin numbers. Every pin in every conenctor is supposed to have a number.
All of the PCB headers count 1...N in a line and the key counts as a spot. In each case pin 1 is the side furthest from the edge connector. Every board here has white text silk-screened to indicate pin1 and the maximum. I just counted them up here against the Satan's Hollow pinout that was linked and the key was in the correct spot.

Audio amplifier has no silk screen, but it can be puzzled out the same way based on the keys. They count 1..N like the other. I've got a photo of that board in my kickman forsale thread (here) that you can use to double-check against.

Power supply doesn't matter since you don't have the parts anyway, and you're talking about hooking it up to JAMMA and a switching power supply.

Yes, those 24-pin cables are toast. I wasn't able to find any cables on Ebay, so I'm still looking for those also.
The solution everybody uses is short SCSI cables (link). Connect it up correctly. If you're offset by a row it can damage your board, power supply, or both depending which one you screwed up.
 
Using an original power supply for audio (+12v) and a separate power supply for game logic (+5/+12) seems more likely to cause a ground loop and noise. The benefits of the original design are probably lost once as you're hooking it up the way you describe.

I suspect the responses would be different if every responder was clear that you did not have the original cabinet, and that you were trying to cobble something together. The concerns cannot be summed up in one or two sentences.
That thread was about powering a Satan's Hollow board set with a switching power supply. When it was concluded that I'd still have audio hum it became about gathering all the original parts. (Power supply PCB, audio PCB, connectors, etc.). And no one mentioned that I'd need a special transformer assembly.

Anyway, if the power/ground leads come off the modified JAMMA adaptor, thus bypassing the main JAMMA harness it would work if I can just find a Satan's Hollow transformer assembly. (I'd of course have to create some sort of switch for power also).
All of the PCB headers count 1...N in a line and the key counts as a spot. In each case pin 1 is the side furthest from the edge connector. Every board here has white text silk-screened to indicate pin1 and the maximum. I just counted them up here against the Satan's Hollow pinout that was linked and the key was in the correct spot.
The straight connectors on the main board set start from right to left. (After brushing the dust off I was able to see the "1"). It's the power supply I was having the most difficulty with. I can only assume that "right to left" applies here also for each subsequent row of pins going down. (In each single connector).
Audio amplifier has no silk screen, but it can be puzzled out the same way based on the keys. They count 1..N like the other. I've got a photo of that board in my kickman forsale thread (here) that you can use to double-check against.
Actually, my audio amplifier is silk-screened. The number one is apparent. So obviously, right to left is the rule again.
Power supply doesn't matter since you don't have the parts anyway, and you're talking about hooking it up to JAMMA and a switching power supply.
I won't need to use the switching power supply if I can find one more original part. I'll have a few boardsets in the cabinet, but obviously Satan's Hollow will be the game that will need it's own dedicated transformer assembly.
The solution everybody uses is short SCSI cables (link). Connect it up correctly. If you're offset by a row it can damage your board, power supply, or both depending which one you screwed up.

I might as well order some board cables for Galaga and Super Pac-man also.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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Tom Wiz makes an MCR to Jamma adaptor. Arcadeshop also sells it.

Do you know Tom Wiz's username here?

Can anyone tell me if there are any significant or preferable differences between the two MCR power supplies pictured?

I have the power assembly in the first picture and it does not include an "Isolation transformer", but that is easily remedied. However, it also does not have the "convenience outlet" or "5 Position Fuse holder" that the power assembly in the second picture has. (But it does have two 5 position terminal strips which the one in the second picture does not have).

It also has two fuses that going by the sticker are 12V 6A and 5V 10A as opposed to the fuses on the second power assembly, which are 250V 2A and SLO-BLO 250V 4A according to the manual.

Lastly, can anyone tell me what the brown cloth wires are for that exit that transformer (near where the two blues ones that go to the big capacitor exit).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 

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Ok. Can anyone tell me what's so special about an MCR transformer that a Satan's Hollow will only work with it? (Is it the transformer itself or the part with the caps?).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
Ok, I can only assume that the "Tom Wiz" and "Arcadeshop" adaptors are basically the same.

Do these adaptors still require the use of the original MCR audio amp or is it built in?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
Do these adaptors still require the use of the original MCR audio amp or is it built in?
The arcadeshop adapter still requires an audio amplifier. It feeds power to the MCR board stack, the MCR board stack outputs line-level audio, and the audio amplifier amps line-level to speaker-level outputs.
 
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