Royal Flush troubleshooting

Vongoosewink

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
2,337
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
I've been fixing up a Royal Flush machine the last few weeks, and finally got the machine in a fit state to play, with touched-up playfield and backglass, new rubbers, wax, the whole 9 yards. Got everything finished today, and put the backbox back on, and now there is an error with the machine I can't figure out.

I made a video of what it is currently doing, any help would be really appreciated:

http://youtu.be/BE48FjT2Szk


Please keep in mind that I'm a newbie when it comes to EMs...
 
Looking great.
It is stuck trying to reset the score reels. Could be the credit rely or the switch when a coin is accepted is not closing. New at this as well. My Speedway did the same with a coin switch problem. Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Looking great.
It is stuck trying to reset the score reels. Could be the credit rely or the switch when a coin is accepted is not closing. New at this as well. My Speedway did the same with a coin switch problem. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tip. The switch on the coin door looks Ok, it's not stuck on.

Someone suggested that it sounds like it is trying to locate the ball, to kick it into playing position. I'm looking at the playfield, and the entire center row of lights are out. These look like they are on the same branch of the harness that the flippers and ball loader are on -- so if there is a power issue with this section, the machine would be stuck trying to load the ball, right?

What to do now, and suggestions?

I checked all the fuses I can see, they are read OK.
 
Vongoosewink

Hi I have a Target Alpha. Esstentially the same em set up. My first suggestion is that you head to the pin repair website. Watch the video on this set up. Read the documents associated. Gottlieb abandoned the reset bank. They replaced it with the Ax, Bx, and Dx set up. A very difficult set up to adjust.

The first thing I suggest that you do if this is going to be home use only is follow the instructions and check your credit unit and set it for free play. There specific instructions on how this unit functions. Step by step make sure thats occurring.

Next check the Ax, Bx, and Dx relays for two things show in the pin repair videos. The blades being out of the plastic piece and that they snap back when engaged and released manually.

Be careful this is a very sensitive set up. Take your time as you can also knock the blades out. I can tell you with some certainty this is why the score motor will not stop at zero.

Lastly your hold relay coil may be history. Find it use and ohm meter and test it. Within the pin repair documents it will show you what it should read. The coin door also has a coil you should check.

Let me know once you walk through these things...I can help. I can save you the month of frustration I went through.

OHEMIO
 
hmm looks to me like suggested in first reply is score wheels arnt resetting.. I think its something in the reels. coil mabey not working in step up when resetting?? Step up in reels not registering? Just seems like your not getting past reset...

mabey something to do with that step up unit that keeps turning?
 
Your score reels are on zero but check each contact
on the reels while it is trying to reset. Use a wooden
chopstick and just check all four zero contacts.
Lights don't tell you much until it is fully reset. Except I
see that the 3rd and 4th player are lit so that may be
where the zero contact is not quite registering.
Otherwise it's the Ax Bx relays which take tiny
careful adjustment.
Poke around with the chopstick and latch the Ax
and it should finish resetting.
Jimmiex
 
OK, thanks for all the tips guys, it's been really helpful so far.

I think part of the problem is that the Ax Bx relays don't have enough backward flex to them, so that they snap back into position easily. I used Jimmiex' trick with the wooden chopstick and went through the relays and eventually got the game to reset, counter reels too. I then got to play a game! Once the game was going, everything played smoothly. Such a fun game!

A few more snags though. Once the game was over, it kept kicking out balls, even though all the player lights were out -- weird.

Second, and most worrying, the 'U 1st ball relay' solenoid is buzzing, and stays activated all the time. I didn't know what it was at first, but eventually noticed the buzzing over the noise of the game and narrowed it down to this relay. By the end of my game it had gotten pretty hot -- why is this engaged all the time?

All lights are now working, I'll make another video when I can convince my wife to operate the camera. The game is not where it needs to be yet, but I'm making a bit of progress! I think an EM expert could have this machine working perfectly in about 5 minutes, I just feel like I'm poking around in the dark a bit right now. Keep the comments coming, guys!
 
Last edited:
Worked on this a bit more today and yesterday.

Following the advice on the Pinrepair website, I modded the coin credit switch in the backbox to freeplay, that seems to be working well!

The game is now basically playable. However, I still have that switch solenoid that is all all the time, so I can't really play it for any length of time until that is figured out.

Other small issues:

Once in a while, when the game resets, the 1 player score reel will miss a number, but usually resetting it again will get it correct.

Once in a while, when one of the card drop targets are hit, it will just start scoring points by the hundreds and not stop, ringing the chimes the whole time. Happened twice now, but most of the time it works correctly.

Here is another video showing the progress so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI4EpagWEk8&feature=youtu.be

Comments, encouragement, and offers to purchase the game are welcome, as always! :)
 
I worked on this a little more tonight. I got a PM with a bunch of helpful advice from OHEMIO, and decided to try it out. He suggested I adjust the Ax and Bx relays. I checked my toolbox, and waddaya know -- I have a switch adjustor tool I bought at PatZ last year and forgot all about! Isn't it funny when you find something that you didn't even remember getting, right when you need it?

So, armed with these suggestions I attacked the Ax and Bx relays (and then a few more). Had lots of loose screws, these are all tightened, and adjusted anything that looked off.

After a couple hours of this, here is where I am:

The players now register correctly as you coin up -- one button lights player 1, press a second time and get player 2, and so on. Once you start to play, the game now keeps an accurate count of the player's balls. You can play the game all the way through. The game is playable!

Still a couple problems --

1. The buzzing solenoid is still going, no idea what's causing this.
2. When you get to the end of a game, the machine does not shut down -- the 'ball' lights go out on the backbox, but it still kicks out another ball, and if you play it then the reels all start to register goofy scores when you get points. Basically, the machine doesn't know the game is over (and the 'game over' light on the backbox doesn't light.)

Anybody got any advice at this point?
 
1st ball U relay is always activated during game play, yes over time they do get quite the buzz, you will need to adjust the switch leafs on that particular relay to have the least amount of tension allowable for it to still work properly, some think one can try to shim it w/tooth picks to quiet it down a bit but that seldom works, ultimately it will need to be replaced.

less tension is key for the U relay
 
oh, and your game over relay / problem is related to one of the stepper units, would have to check schematics to find which one has that switch in it's stack - i think (not actually looking at an EM right now)
 
I worked on this a little more tonight. I got a PM with a bunch of helpful advice from OHEMIO, and decided to try it out. He suggested I adjust the Ax and Bx relays. I checked my toolbox, and waddaya know -- I have a switch adjustor tool I bought at PatZ last year and forgot all about! Isn't it funny when you find something that you didn't even remember getting, right when you need it?

So, armed with these suggestions I attacked the Ax and Bx relays (and then a few more). Had lots of loose screws, these are all tightened, and adjusted anything that looked off.

After a couple hours of this, here is where I am:

The players now register correctly as you coin up -- one button lights player 1, press a second time and get player 2, and so on. Once you start to play, the game now keeps an accurate count of the player's balls. You can play the game all the way through. The game is playable!

Still a couple problems --

1. The buzzing solenoid is still going, no idea what's causing this.
2. When you get to the end of a game, the machine does not shut down -- the 'ball' lights go out on the backbox, but it still kicks out another ball, and if you play it then the reels all start to register goofy scores when you get points. Basically, the machine doesn't know the game is over (and the 'game over' light on the backbox doesn't light.)

Anybody got any advice at this point?

Vongoosewink

I pulled my Target Alpha manual for these questions.

Since your player count and ball count are working properly per your statement above I'd say your really close.

Here's what my manual states word for word for the last ball...

"The last ball leaving the playfield (3 or 5) will trip the Bx Relay (last ball relay) through switches E (extra ball relay), Dx (1st Ball Relay), rivets on the Player Unit (in back box - 5 cams and a continuous stepper) and the O relay ball return relay".

Therefore last ball relay is not tripping correctly and therefore I would pull the hair pins for each of these relays and make sure they're making good contact.

CAUTION - Check these one at a time as you are close. Bx contact first - then try to start up the game again to see if your in the same spot or made an improvement.

Buzzing that loud is one of two issues:

1. A bad relay coil (this is possible after 35+ years especially the ones that have brown or orange "burned" wrappers)

2. A switch that's closed when it should be open.

If none of this works our next stop will be the score motor switch stacks. This is a little more involved.

Good luck...OHEMIO
 
Ok guys, here's the latest video showing the state of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Cf1D_NI7A&feature=youtu.be

It is currently playing and registering credits/players correctly, but when you get to the end the game does not stop, it just keeps kicking out a ball when it is drained. All this should be shown in the video.

I went through and tightened all the switch stacks in the bottom, all the switches seem to be making contact ok (though keep in mind, I'm not an expert).

I don't think Target Alpha and RF are exactly the same -- RF does not seem to have a Dx relay. I do have a manual here for RF, where does yours describe the last ball? Is that the 'how the playfield operates" section?

I can try an scan or recap any part of the manual if that would help.
 
A small update for anyone following this thread:

This is not really progress, but I have figured out that when playing a 3 or 4 player game, the game DOES end correctly after the 5th ball. For some reason, a 1 or 2 player game never ends after the last ball, it just keeps kicking them out each time it is drained.

Do Gottlieb 4 player games handle players 1 & 2 on a separate switch bank then 3 & 4? If so, maybe this can help me find where the problem spot is.

Any ideas?
 
Check the contacts on the player selector in the head. They are twitchy and hard to set / get consistent. I have found problems with them, and they would cause this.

I think you have a high resistance connection there. Probably a bad contact.
 
Check the contacts on the player selector in the head. They are twitchy and hard to set / get consistent. I have found problems with them, and they would cause this.

I think you have a high resistance connection there. Probably a bad contact.

OK, I'll go looking for these this weekend -- thanks for the help. You said 'high resistance connection', please keep in mind I'm new to EMs, what am I looking for here?
 
A connection where the resistance is more than an ohm or two. Look for contacts that aren't completely closed (you can see light through them).

If you have an ohm meter, meter across the closed contacts (power off the game first), and see what you get.

This could also be a bad "pin" connector - the flat strips with the pins and sockets between the head and playfield, and the playfield and relays in the bottom of the machine.
 
There is one other place where I had a fault on this machine, and it was on the Ax relay (I think). The power to the relay coil had two wires going to it. Whoever soldered it didn't get the connection hot enough, and the connection was a cold solder joint. I couldn't get it hot enough with my 40 watt iron, so I spliced in a single length of 18 gauge to the two wires, and then wire nutted them in, to make the connection.

The way I found this was by running my hands over the Ax, Bx, and Cx relay wires - the game reset, and I found my loose connector.

Sorry, all these games and fixes blur together - when the discussion about the Ax etc. started up, it knocked loose a memory.
 
ArcadeTechGW

The Ax, Bx, etc...are a complicated switch setup. I had many issues with my TA and this setup in unison with the score motor switches must be cleaned and adjusted just right for the game to work.

If Vongoosewink has a set of allegator clip wires he could test your fix.

He may have a few coils that are not operating at a high enough output. I'd also suggest that he test these as I had to replace four on mine before the game would work consistently.

Have a good New Year gentlemen.

OHEMIO
 
Back
Top Bottom