Rollergames upper diverter problems

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Finally getting around to focus on the Rollergames a bit. Right now the biggest problem is the upper diverter does not work. Here are the details:

- There were all kinds of parts missing that we didn't realize upon first inspection, including the master spring and gate mechanism spring. Going by the manual I can replace everything that we can see as missing, so that's good.

- The drive link was torn to hell on the side nearest the coil. I've looked all over the place and cannot find a replacement so we're going to have to tool one.

- The coil that actuates the arm seems frozen. You can here an "electronic" buzz when it tries to fire in test mode but absolutely no movement. The plunger seems to move fine. There's an old Williams AE 26-1200 coil in there but the manual says it should be an AE 23-800. Can anyone tell me what's in their machine - and does it have diodes? The 26-1200 in there now does not (admittedly I'm trying to see with it installed and the top glass on, but I can't see any).

To make this easy I'm thinking the playfield is probably going to have to come out. The diverter is way up in the back almost underneath the backbox and working on it is incredibly tough. Working on setting up a little room in the basement to handle these kinds of things. Hopefully it's ready to go in a few weeks.

Thanks, all. Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
Don't think twice about it - take the playfield out. Rollergames is a bitch to work on because they hadn't implemented slide out playfields yet and removing the ramp is near impossible without removing the playfield (2 man job). Might as well shop it while you have it out and clean under the ramp.

I'll have to get back to you on the coil, but if you've got something that doesn't match the manual, won't hurt to swap it out. The linkage on my diverter was so worn in that it no longer made a full swing (the diverter arms moved maybe about half as far as they normally do. I actually fixed this by taking a hack saw to the solenoid plunger and cutting about 1 centimeter off of it, forcing the arms to swing further and direct the ball properly. Has worked perfect since.

-BB
 
Thanks, glad to know my impressions about pulling the playfield were right. Never done it before, so this should be an experience. The plan was to do that and then do a full tear-down and cleaning, which will also be a first. The Rollergames may be sidelined for quite a while.

We got the coil working. I'm still learning the System 11 diagnostics (a pain compared to the WPC system), so we must have just not had it set right when we tested it the first time. I plan to replace the coil with an older 23-800 I swapped out of another machine for the heck of it because I accidentally ordered the wrong coil.

The 26-1200 does not have a diode and neither does the my replacement 23-800. The 26-1200 seemed to be working last night. Should I be concerned?

Thanks again guys.
 
I have a rollergames, and I think I still have my teardown pics from when we shopped it. Let me know if you need me to check things out..I can tell you what coil is on my diverter, we had to replace the linkage springs when we finally got it working and then while shopping it out found out that's why it wasn't opening. :p

Go go Diamondplate!
 
Yeah I'm interested what coil you have back there because the one that was on there looked old enough to be original. And yeah, I may ask you about those pictures. Parts order won't be in until next week and who knows how fast this will progress with the holidays.

You also mentioned Daimondplate. My machine is not a Diamondplate version and is fully mylared. I do like to play my games a fair amount –*a few nights a week usually –*should I remove the mylar while I'm shopping it? I would like to but I don't want to take it off if it's likely the playfield will get damaged from play afterward.
 
Yeah I'm interested what coil you have back there because the one that was on there looked old enough to be original. And yeah, I may ask you about those pictures. Parts order won't be in until next week and who knows how fast this will progress with the holidays.

You also mentioned Daimondplate. My machine is not a Diamondplate version and is fully mylared. I do like to play my games a fair amount –*a few nights a week usually –*should I remove the mylar while I'm shopping it? I would like to but I don't want to take it off if it's likely the playfield will get damaged from play afterward.

If it's not diamondplate and it's not REALLY bugging you, I wouldn't pull it..sys 11 is notorious for pulling up with mylar.

Mine is diamondplate, that's why I said that. ;) I found this game as a purchase along with a DE Time Machine and just got stupid lucky that it's a sample game! I had to replace the MPU, soundcard, and all ROMS to get it to boot, and had to replace a chip on the display driver board to get it unscrambled. On top of that, inserts were popped out so my wife and I leveled them as well... good times. :p But other than the damage I caused before we leveled them the RIGHT way (just keylines, thank god. Easy to fix...) the playfield's absolutely beautiful.....as it should be for a game that sat broken in someone's storage/garage for 13 years! :)

Coil on my diverter is a 23-800, yellow wrapper. :)
 
Thanks, Frax, that helps. I kind of figured you meant your machine had the Diamondplate playfield. Interesting they didn't do it with the actual run, but those are the breaks, I guess. Like I said, I'd prefer it without but the mylar is in pretty good shape overall, so I think I'm going to leave it.

Hopefully will be able to get the playfield out and begin work in the next week or so. Will try to keep the thread updated.
 
Yeah, I've still got one nagging issue on mine as well... I can't plunge the ball at full strength or it slams into the side of the WALL ramp and won't go up it. I have no clue if it's leveling or what.. tried fiddling with the shooter but no help there. I can plunge at half power and it works fine. Go figure.
 
OK, the playfield is out and the tear-down has begun. It's amazing how much nicer it is working on this thing when it's not in the cabinet in my living room. It feels so much less rushed and you can really get in close. Love it so far.

Two things I would like:

- Some kind of test bench setup where I could test lamps, flashers and so forth. One of the main reasons for taking the playfield out was to get under the ramp where the flashers are. I was missing one socket and three flashers were not working. I replaced the socket but I'm not sure what else to do with the flashers as I can't turn them on to test them any further. I won't be able to test them until the playfield is back in the machine, and then I won't be able to work on them because they're back under the ramp.

- A rig for supporting the playfield so it can be worked on. I've seen those "spit-roast" rigs and they look pretty nifty. Right now I have it propped up precariously until we can construct something a little more solid.

Otherwise, I'm having fun just cleaning around all the spaces we couldn't reach before. We're probably going to put on new white rubber and a Cliffy wall protector, even though the wall is so blown out there isn't much to protect anymore.

Should be able to get this thing to "nice player" status. Just not sure how long it will take!
 
Ok, first time shop job blues have just set in hard.

Got everything to where we wanted it and re-inserted the playfield. Reconnected everything, held our breath, and turned it on. Backbox comes on, coin door comes on but nothing on the playfield. Display shows "adjustment failure," although we did replace the batteries with the intention of it resetting everything anyway. So we turn it off to see if we missed any plugs.

Not seeing anything, we turned it back on to check diagnostics and so forth. After about five minutes - BAM! - the varistor (vr1) on the APD board blew. Damn, damn, damn. Quite a sparks and light show, for sure. The board itself look OK, just dirty and now in need of a cleaning. And of course, it needs a new varistor.

Does anyone have any idea where to even start with this one? This is new territory to me. I'm not worried about replacing the varistor, that can be done. I obviously have to know why the thing blew in the first place.

Thanks for any help, guys.
 
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Did you ever figure out your problem? I just picked on up, and was going to start a shop job real soon, kinda nervous about taking off the whole wall of dealth ramp and diverter piece. any problems there? is it pretty easy to take off. there is a bunch of light out underneath it.
 
Did you ever figure out your problem? I just picked on up, and was going to start a shop job real soon, kinda nervous about taking off the whole wall of dealth ramp and diverter piece. any problems there? is it pretty easy to take off. there is a bunch of light out underneath it.

I wish I could say I figured it out but we've been sidetracked for some time on it now. Sickness and other obligations brought us to a screeching halt. We have replaced the varistor (and have plenty more on hand) and are getting ready to start trying to isolate where the draw is coming from.

In all honesty, once the playfield was out getting the upper ramp off was pretty simple. We had a few flashers that were out (including one that was missing a socket). We got that set up (we think, can't test it without power). If your diverter appears to be working I'm not sure I'd even mess with it. If it's not working the only thing I couldn't find online was the actual diverter arm – we had to fabricate that ourselves, the rest is pretty straight forward.

Hopefully can get back to work on this this week. Let me know if I can be of any help with your shop out.
 
Thank you I probly will have a couple questions. My diverter is working fine, so all I really want to do is clean the ramps. So to get the playfield up, do I loosen up the two bolts that it hinges on? Also once I can move the playfield and get the ramp up and out... What kind of wires are there to deal with? Just wires hooked up to the diverter? I don't have to desolder anything do I? Sorry to sound like a moron, but this is my first shop job that has a lot of levels to it. Ive ony done one level late 70's. Thanks
 
Thank you I probly will have a couple questions. My diverter is working fine, so all I really want to do is clean the ramps. So to get the playfield up, do I loosen up the two bolts that it hinges on? Also once I can move the playfield and get the ramp up and out... What kind of wires are there to deal with? Just wires hooked up to the diverter? I don't have to desolder anything do I? Sorry to sound like a moron, but this is my first shop job that has a lot of levels to it. Ive ony done one level late 70's. Thanks

In my experience, the only things you really need to take the playfield out in order to work on are:

- Any flasher wiring or socket replacement (since the ramp has to come off for this, and you can't take the ramp off with the field in the cabinet). Some of the flasher lamps can be changed without taking the playfield out, but a couple of the back ones are almost impossible to unscrew with it in.

- The diverter assembly. If you just want to work super-closely on this to clean it I might consider leaving the playfield in. It's almost completely obscured beneath the backbox and hard to see anyway. But it's pretty much impossible to do any mechanical work on it with it in the cabinet.

- Any rubbers or posts that you want to replace on the bottom of the ramp assembly, because again, the ramp has to come off.

- Cleaning the underside and beneath the ramp. Again - ramp must come out.

I had to take it out to fix the diveter and flashers, so I cleaned underneath the ramp since I had it out anyway. All the regular lamps under the ramp can be changed without taking the ramp off from the underside, I believe.

The only wires on the playfield that go to the diverter is the power going to the coil lugs, so no soldering work if you're not swapping out the coil, but there are about a dozen connectors that must be detached from the backbox boards to get the playfield out. Check your manual, and I recommend tracing all playfield wires to the backbox by hand to make sure. Label with a Shaprie, etc., but I'm guessing you know that stuff :)

Also one thing we didn't think of was that there is a fairly long board hanging down beneath the drop bank target on the underside. If you don't have a special rig to work on the playfield that board is the first thing it will rest on if you try to lay it flat, which can't be good for it. Again, you may be prepared for this but thought I'd mention it.

All that said, it is WAY easier to work on everything with the playfield out. I was encouraged to just take it out for simplicity's sake and I have to agree it was the right move despite my current issues.

Of course, seeing the state of my machine right now I'm probably the last guy who should be giving advice. :D
 
Thank you for getting back to me. The rubbers are pretty dry rotted, so I need to but on all new rubbers. I will take my time. Thanks for being willing to answer some questions. Didn't mean to high jack your tech thread! Ha
 
No problem! Rambling about my own job is getting me back into the state of mind I need to be in to tackle the next round of problems, so I kind of needed this, anyway.

Good luck!
 
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