Rock-Ola Volume/Cancel box info

wrkey

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I have a Rock-Ola 450. I want to set up a remote volume control and cancel button cause I'm tired of trying to reach behind the machine. I have two options here, one find a working orginal box and cable and purchase it and hope it works or make a control box.

While I'm looking for on to purchase, I thought I my try to build one. I know the Cancel switch is pretty simple... just a monentary button switch. But the Volume control I'm not sure about.

It appears that the volume control on my system is motorized so that the remote box has a two position toggle switch that simply powers the motor one way or the other. But I am just guessing at this point. I've seen one on sale on eBay for rather cheap but no cables and now guarantee.

Does anyone know anthing about the remote vol/cancel boxes? or have a wiring diagram? Or could take a photo of the insides of one they have post it here?

I'm looking for any help that anyone can provide! Thanks in advance.

Rusty
 
The remote volume control schematic is shown on the giant foldout schematic that came with your jukebox. If I remember correctly, this is a double-sided schematic. One side is the overall schematic of the whole juke and the other side is detailed schematics of the components like the amplifier, power supply, coin switch bracket, etc.

If you don't have the schematic, then buy the Victory Glass manual for your model 450. It should be in there.

Starting around the model 450 (or so) Rockola went to the optional motorized remote volume control. If your machine does not have the optional motorized remote volume assembly in the bottom of the cabinet, a remote volume control won't work. Also, starting around this same model was an optional remote power on-off function added to the remote volume control. So you also need to look to see if there's an optional remote power module installed in the bottom of the cabinet as this will determine the type of remote volume control you need.

There are two types of remote volume control wall mounted boxes out there:

Remote volume & cancel.

Remote volume, cancel, power on-off.

I know the remote volume & cancel one uses 5 conductor unshielded wire (22 gauge) and I think the remote vol/cancel/power also uses 5 conductor. It's been so long since I last worked on any of those jukes.

The switch specifications I remember for these controls are as follows:

Volume: Toggle, spring return to center off, S.P.D.T. This kind of switch is shown in catalog specs and on the packaging written this way: (on) off (on). The parenthesis indicate a momentary function.

Cancel: momentary pushbutton (normally open)

Power: toggle switch, S.P.S.T.

In both types of controls there is a subminiature light bulb that back lights the silkscreened faceplate. It is a 24 volt bulb. Either a # 327 or 387 miniature lamp.

You can use the remote vol/cancel type of control on a machine equipped with the remote power option, but you must put a jumper with on the terminal strip on the back of the machine where the remote volume hooks up or the jukebox will not turn on.
 
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Thanks Ken! I will examine my machine this evening and see what I can determine. I do have an original 450 Technician Repair and Maintanance guide along with the trouble shooting guide. The repair manual has lots of 'fold out' schematics and I will have to examine it bit closer to see if I can find the information you speak of.

I do know my machine has some remote terminal connections on it, but I haven't examined it that closely to see how they are labeled... which should tell me if the remote volume option was there. Right?

Aside from the above, your information was just what I needed. If it functions as you indicated I should be able to 'imitate' the volume control toggle by using a 'jumper' across the correct connections. I'll look at the schematics to see if I can determine what should be connected to what. I am speculating (ie guessing) that the wire can be connected to the 'common' and then jumpered over to another contact and the volume will rise and another contact the volume will decrease. Let me know if I am way off base here.

Again, thanks for the info!
 
Inside the juke at the bottom of the cabinet should be the optional motorized volume control assembly. It will be about a 2" square box about 4" high and will have a black knob on it. Up by the amplifier there will be a gray cable with a round 5 pin plug molded to the end of it. This cable will be very near where the amplifier's existing volume control plug/cable is already plugged into the amplifier. You have to unplug the amplifier's internal volume cable and plug in the remote cable instead.

All the Rockola jukes from 450 on up will have a remote volume terminal strip next to where the external speakers hook up at. That remote volume terminal strip will be there regardless of whether your machine is equipped with remote volume control or not.

If the remote volume assembly cable is plugged into the amplifier and you momentarily jumper "COM" to "VOL INCREASE" for a couple of seconds, the volume control motor will spins the shaft of the remote volume control and the sound will get louder. Doing the same with "COM" and "VOL DECREASE" should bring the volume down.

Usually the terminal strips are labeled like this order:

INCREASE (volume) Pink-Green wire

DECREASE (volume) Pink-Yellow wire

CANCEL (reject) Black-Orange wire

ON-OFF (power) Gray-Green wire

COMMON Pink-Black wire
 
Typical Rockola remote volume control boxes for use with the motorized remote volume option.
 

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Thanks for the info Ken!

I looked at my jukebox and found the plug in for the motorized volume control option. There was nothing plugged in. This plug was a round plug located at the bottom of my amp.

So if I understand correctly, in order to have a remote volume/cancel control box, I first have to have the motorized volume control component added to my jukebox and plugged into the Amp. Then I would need the Remote box and cable wired to the back of the machine. (I've included this info in case someone comes looking for it.)

I was hoping that this would be a simple add/mod for me but it appear to be a bit more than I was wish for so it'll have to wait for now.

Thanks again for the help Ken!

Oh.. I've attached a photo of my Jukebox in my ManCave. The photos a little dark.. sorry.
 

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So if I understand correctly, in order to have a remote volume/cancel control box, I first have to have the motorized volume control component added to my jukebox and plugged into the Amp. Then I would need the Remote box and cable wired to the back of the machine. (I've included this info in case someone comes looking for it.)


Yes that is correct. The jukebox must already have the motorized volume control assembly installed in the bottom of the machine and wired to the amplifier and power supply with the wiring harness that is included with it. Then you can use the the remote control box on the wall which would be hardwired to the jukebox's terminal strip via a 5 conductor cable.

FYI, remote volume controls in general have always been OPTIONAL accessories for all makes/models of jukeboxes. Most operators would order the optional remote volume control stuff when they ordered the jukebox from the distributor. Many times when they put a jukebox on location, they needed remote volume control anyway.

If your juke does not already have this motorized unit in it, you're gonna have to find a used one or a N.O.S. one somewhere. Sometimes they show up on ebay. You might try talking to the folks at www.jukeboxparts.com as they might have what you need.
 
Have you had any luck with this Wrkey?

I've got one of them 450's and know 1st hand the hassle of reaching around behind the thing to adjust the volume.

I've considered mounting the existing controls into a small project box and mounting up a length of cable to extend the circuit. Just hate to cut into anything y'kno?
 
resurecting and old post!

I don't think I spelled that right.... anyway....

update on my 450.

I found and installed a 507 tri-vue wall box and the appropriate (I forget the model number) digital control box. I printed off a bunch of duplicate title stips and did some clean up work on the 'new' devices... and I now have a working Wallbox! I plan on cabling it from the man cave to my workshop so I can listen to my records with having the man-cave door open. Pretty sweet! Oh.. the way the 507 flips the titles is way cool!

But.. to get back to the subject of this post. I also recenty puchased a remote control box (with out the power switch) kit off of ebay. This was a NOS item and it appeared to have never been installed. Well.. I figured it all out based on the instructions that came with it and my 450 manual. Kinda.

Here's the problem. The motor in the vol control portion is powered though the connection to the amp just below the where the volume plug goes in. The toggle switch on the remote box simply set the flow direction to control the rotation of the motor and consequently turns the volume up or down. I installed it per the directions and hooked up the box but the motor wouldn't turn. After an hour or so of search, testing and probing I think I found the problem.

Tracing the 'power' wire from the motor, it goes through the plug on the amp and out again (directy) through a plug / cable that goes to the Amp/Adapter plug on the Power Supply. From there the power wire goes down in a wrapped cable behind the credit mechs. and to a 'Remote Adapter Plug' at the bottom of the PS/Credit box. This plug has a jumper plug in it which has two wires to jump circuits across to another pin. However, the wire that is supposed to bring power to the volume control motor does not have a connection to it... thus no power.

So... questions:

1. Does anyknow know the configuration of the jumper plug that is needed to bring power to where it needs to be? I am wrong to assume it's just a jumper plug and I need something else?
2. What is the voltage of the motor in the 2173 kit? I figure I might be able to jumper the plug myself to bring the voltage to the motor.. I just need to the correct voltage.

Any other advice?

I don't have any photos yet.. but hope to update this site and my personal web page soon. Lot's going on down here in Texas so my pages are in bad need of updates!

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!

Rusty
 
Resurrecting this post again with more updates...

Soooo.... it appears that I traced the original wiring incorrectly. The plug I referenced earlier is used to jumper the power when the remote 'On/Off' system is not used. The volume control works as such:

1. The Common functions as 'Ground' for both the cancel button and the volume control.
2. There are 2 wires for volume control, 1 for up and 1 for down.
3. If the Cancel button is pushed, the cancel circuit is completed to the common ground.
4. If the volume toggle is moved to the 'Down' position, the circuit is completed to the commond ground from the 'rotate counter-clockwise' circuit of the volume control motor.
5. If the volume toggle is moved to the 'Up' position, the circuit is completed to the commond ground from the 'rotate clockwise' circuit of the volume control motor.

The tricky part is power to the Volume Control motor itself. In my kit, the control motor is 25v and which is brought to the motor through the short circular plug on the Amp. There are 4 connections on this 6 pin plug, 1 chasis ground, 1 each for the control circuits and a 25v input. The input voltage pin is located between the two control circuit pins and is 'Pink/White' or 'White/Pink' depending upon how it has faded in color. Here's the fun part...

The 25v is brought to the amp from the Power Supply via the Amp/Mechanical cable. In the power Supply it goes to the front lower 'reciever' plug where (I suspect) there was (or should be) a jumper plug that routes the 25v input to that the plug to the output for use in the receiver. However, this lower reciever plug is also where the 1769 Stepper plugs in... which I have and which I am assuming is how the stepper gets the 25v it needs.

I am thinking that 'somewhere' with in the stepper componenet the 25v is routed back to the correct pin for use by the volume motor but I haven't figured that out yet. I am currently looking to acquire the schematics for the 1769 and the 507 Tri-Vue that I am using. I have found them both on eBay from different vendors but awaiting replies from either to see if they have both so I can save some shipping cost.

Anyway, I am very close to getting this working and once done, I will have working:

Rock Ola 450 (in the ManCave)
1769 Stepper Unit
507 Tri Vue Wall Unit (in my Shop area)
Remote Volume / Cancel

I am having a bit of an issue with the Tri Vue as it tends to go into 'Reset' mode after every selection and periodically the stepper will act as if it making the selection, spins the selection wheel and click is heard as if it's flipping the selection toggle but the toggle doesn't actually get flipped. I'm suspecting a bad connection somewhere that is causing that issue.

More updates soon... I hope.
 
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