That's really impressive. How complex are these custom chips, i.e. how many logic gates?
Reverse Engineering Namco Customs: My setup
- Thread starter ajcrm125
- Start date
Channelmanic has lots of customs for sale although I am not sure if he has tested them yet. They may not be on his web site. Give him a shout via PM if interested.
jrok
Well-known member
Almost all the Namco customs I replaced, which weren't an MCU, could fit into a 36 macrocell Xilinx device. The 06xx and 05xx ended up needing a 64 cell device.
edit: that should be a 36 cell, not 32 cell, xilinx device and it was 00,02,03,04,08,07,10,12 = 36 macrocell so a 'small' CPLD
- James
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animesuperj
Well-known member
Over my head as well, but very cool! I would also love a new PP board, or even better - a multi PP.
joeycuda
Well-known member
Is anything close enough to the PP hardware that it would make sense to add it to a PP/PP2 multigame/replacement PCB?
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ajcrm125
Well-known member
Boy I can't think of anything other than clones. (Top Racer for example)
But if you had PP I can't of why you would want Top Racer.
modessitt
Volunteer: Encyclopedia Submission Moderator
Don't know the hardware, but TX-1 would be a good one to add as it looks like PP already...
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ajcrm125
Well-known member
I dunno man.. that game has 3 monitors. It may have some similar hardware but the 3 monitors is a dead giveaway that it's quite different.
Besides, you'd have to strap 2 additional monitors off your PP cab to get the full effect.
Awesome! It's really cool to watch your other vids too and they've helped me understand some board repair concepts!
Maybe I am misunderstading this page: http://guru.mameworld.info/decap/index.html From what I can tell they obtain the exact contents of the chip by decapping and viewing the chip itself and then develop the exact processing in software. Of course that's not done for all the MAME emulation but they did it for all the 5xxx NAMCO customs in PP and PP2.
Nah MAME's pretty useless when it comes to this stuff. They just look at what's going on visually and make a best guess as to how to achieve that effect in software. Doing it in real-time in hardware is another story. And I'd rather not guess. The purists will know.
jrok
Well-known member
This works for the micro-controller based Namco 'custom' IC's. The 51xx is a just a Fujitsu 4-bit micro-controllerm as is the 54xx. So once the chip is decapped the ROM is extracted it can be emulated just like any other CPU.
With the other custom IC's if you decapped them you'd have to reverse the function from the silicon level, which some folks have done as with this chip reversal project
http://www.zxdesign.info/book/insideULA.shtml
His book is awesome BTW
- James
thebman80
Well-known member
Neat Still really don't understand this stuff fully just got the Hand of burning ROM's a few months back. 10 years from now who knows LOL. Yeah If you get a multi board working for PP I would consider adding it to my collection. I just didn't want to have to deal with the headache of fixing one still have plenty of other crap on my plate to fix as it is.
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Tighe
Well-known member
Awesome work man! I know enough to know that is not easy stuff to do!
They use to use x rays to look into chips 20 years ago.
5 years ago maybe longer, I remember xilinx or another pga manufacture had a device they were showing off that would copy a pga chip even if the security links where blown.
Amazing work you have done.
5 years ago maybe longer, I remember xilinx or another pga manufacture had a device they were showing off that would copy a pga chip even if the security links where blown.
Amazing work you have done.
This is cool stuff-
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/audio/namco54.c
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/machine/namco51.c.html
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/machine/namco53.c.html
They're like a system-on-a-chip. The important part is getting the ROM out of the chip so that it can be recreated. I don't think there is a standard way to read out the ROM data.
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/audio/namco54.c
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/machine/namco51.c.html
http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/machine/namco53.c.html
They're like a system-on-a-chip. The important part is getting the ROM out of the chip so that it can be recreated. I don't think there is a standard way to read out the ROM data.
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ajcrm125
Well-known member
Yeah the 5xxx stuff I'll tackle last. Most of that stuff is sound related anyways.
My plan it get the game up and running with accurate video first and do the sound stuff last.
My plan it get the game up and running with accurate video first and do the sound stuff last.
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ajcrm125
Well-known member
Took a wild guess at the 02xx and it turned out to be 99% right. This one should be an easy one.
My head hurts..... loved the 'simplified' version montage. Great work!!! Nice to see someone has the patience and mental capacity to deconstruct pole position.
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ajcrm125
Well-known member
02xx is done....
AtHomeTech
Permanently Banned
Thats freakin COOL!
