FS Parts: Reproduction WICO 3/8 Joystick Grommets

[BrokenTrace]

Thanks for offering these up, Justin, I was pretty stoked when I saw you had these. I was actually wanting something with a little more resistance. Don't get me wrong, the originals are awesome, but if you wanted something with a little more push-back, you only had the hard-rubber repro on ebay to choose from. On my Tutankham, the controls just felt too soft, I probably use more force when playing games. So I tried this 2nd batch in my Tut and they felt right....like 3 bears right! I put some in my Dig Dug and Dragon's Lair too and really like the extra resistance, especially when hitting the joystick for each move in Dragon's Lair.

 

[Kickman]

Have you ever considered doing the skinny shaft version of these? The reason I ask is because I have couple of these in many of my games and I love them. I'm a 16 year mechanic/technician that turns wrenches all day. I can actually marathon with your grommets but I just put a new wico skinny grommet in my zoo keeper and I can't even play the game. I fact I play better with my torn clapped out original grommet. My arm hurts so bad from the new grommet, I don't think I can play the game like this anymore

 

[andrewb]

Have you ever considered doing the skinny shaft version of these? The reason I ask is because I have couple of these in many of my games and I love them. I'm a 16 year mechanic/technician that turns wrenches all day. I can actually marathon with your grommets but I just put a new wico skinny grommet in my zoo keeper and I can't even play the game. I fact I play better with my torn clapped out original grommet. My arm hurts so bad from the new grommet, I don't think I can play the game like this anymore

Hey Harry, if you want to send me that repro grommet, I can send you an original one, that's in good shape, which might be softer for you. PM me if you want to swap it out.

I have several used skinny grommets in my posession, which came out of various sticks I've refurbished, and there are definitely several different mold shapes, which result in the thickness of the rubber being different around the bulk of the grommet. I'm not sure of they're from different manufacturers, but they definitely vary in stiffness. I'm only aware of the Arcadeshop repros for the skinny grommets though, and I'm not enough of a player to know how the stiffness compares to the originals.

Also, if someone did repro these skinny grommets again, it would be nice if the metal collar/hole in the center was made a little narrower, to properly fit the skinny Wico shaft. Right now, the skinny grommets from Arcadeshop are the same for the Midway and Wico types (I've bought some of each, and they're the same grommet), and the hole is a little bigger than it could be for the Wico shafts. This results in a little more slop than there could be if it were smaller.

 

[1500points]

Hey guys,

All of this week's orders have now shipped. This was the last of my grommets and I am now officially out. I do however have some slightly firmer grommets which I had made with the original batch. They are still much softer than the stiff Wico grommets that were out. I had a small batch of these made for some members that preferred mildly firmer grommets for games such as TMNT simpsons and turtles in time. Unfortunately since the thread has been around so long it will not let me edit my original post. If anyone is interested I do still have a smaller batch of these grommets available for $7.25 each with a minimum order of 2 grommets. Thanks again for everything guys and I'm glad I was able to help out the community. In the future depending on demand I may have another run done but for right now this is will be it.

Thanks again!
Justin

Were these the 4lb grommets you had me test?
For Robo players those are going to feel a bit heavy-handed.

I think you will still have plenty of interest going forward with another run of 2lb'rs?


The Nibbler FPGA is coming out soon and that is a game which demands a wico 4way for the upper waves.
People might be thinking they can play it with a micro or other joy, but once they get good enough for wave 20 plus it'll become obvious to them.
And they'll be seeking 2lb grommets for a wico refurb. Even Tim McVey the Nibbler guy runs your 2lb'ers and thinks they are superb.

 

[Kickman]

Hey Harry, if you want to send me that repro grommet, I can send you an original one, that's in good shape, which might be softer for you. PM me if you want to swap it out.



I have several used skinny grommets in my posession, which came out of various sticks I've refurbished, and there are definitely several different mold shapes, which result in the thickness of the rubber being different around the bulk of the grommet. I'm not sure of they're from different manufacturers, but they definitely vary in stiffness. I'm only aware of the Arcadeshop repros for the skinny grommets though, and I'm not enough of a player to know how the stiffness compares to the originals.



Also, if someone did repro these skinny grommets again, it would be nice if the metal collar/hole in the center was made a little narrower, to properly fit the skinny Wico shaft. Right now, the skinny grommets from Arcadeshop are the same for the Midway and Wico types (I've bought some of each, and they're the same grommet), and the hole is a little bigger than it could be for the Wico shafts. This results in a little more slop than there could be if it were smaller.

Will do Andrew thank you.

Yes I wish the repro for the skinny small holes were way way softer and your right about the hole size!

It's cool that they fixed that with the larger ones I got from here.

 

[creepykenny]

Will do Andrew thank you.

Yes I wish the repro for the skinny small holes were way way softer and your right about the hole size!

It's cool that they fixed that with the larger ones I got from here.

ditto, the arcadeshop re-pro's "skinny" holes are not sized correctly

 

[Kickman]

Also is it me or is this normal aswell but I can slightly pull up and down on my stick with new grommet, it has side to side shake. Mentioned above but it's like there is a stack up night issue maybe because the sleeve is abit to short?

My old one did it a lot but I figured it was just beat after 30 years lol cause when I took it apart there wS enough crap in there thAt it looked like it never had been apart. the up and down doesn't even bother me but the shake side to side does, and the AS grommet is so heavy on pull my game is freaking moving!!!

Anybody reading this may I remind you this is about the skinny shaft wico not the ones reproduced in this thread which are amazing!!!!

If I could have these for my skinny, it would bad dream!!

 

[andrewb]

Also is it me or is this normal aswell but I can slightly pull up and down on my stick with new grommet, it has side to side shake. Mentioned above but it's like there is a stack up night issue maybe because the sleeve is abit to short?

My old one did it a lot but I figured it was just beat after 30 years lol cause when I took it apart there wS enough crap in there thAt it looked like it never had been apart. the up and down doesn't even bother me but the shake side to side does, and the AS grommet is so heavy on pull my game is freaking moving!!!

Dumb question - but did you disassemble the stick after you got it from me? I'm wondering if it's put together incorrectly, or if something else is going on.

I build and adjust all of my sticks to feel as good as possible before I ship them. I don't recall the one I sent you being that stiff, and certainly no stiffer than any others I've sold. I also usually add a shim washer under the e-clip to minimize the up/down play, so there should be very little. I can't really do much for the side-side play, as that's just due to the grommet being too big, but it shouldn't be so sloppy that it's affecting gameplay.

Are you sure the stick is together correctly, and that it isn't catching on anything under the CP? (Wires, etc?) Again, just a sanity check.

 

[1500points]

Also is it me or is this normal aswell but I can slightly pull up and down on my stick with new grommet, it has side to side shake. Mentioned above but it's like there is a stack up night issue maybe because the sleeve is abit to short?

My old one did it a lot but I figured it was just beat after 30 years lol cause when I took it apart there wS enough crap in there thAt it looked like it never had been apart. the up and down doesn't even bother me but the shake side to side does, and the AS grommet is so heavy on pull my game is freaking moving!!!

Anybody reading this may I remind you this is about the skinny shaft wico not the ones reproduced in this thread which are amazing!!!!

If I could have these for my skinny, it would bad dream!!

I realize you are talking about the skinny, but when testing the ones in this thread, there were some variations in the wico mold itself depending on the run of containers BITD I presume. The Paradise Arcade actuator replacement solved any issues this may have caused with dissimilar wico bases, because the length of the sleeve is modified slightly.
I would say there was a defect in the length of the original wico actuators and paradise arcade DID fix it.

update as I see Andrew's reply....back to the original grommet and wico base topic. You'll notice in the original design that the spring is completely squashed in an original parts setup, due to the washer in there. If you think about engineering, that spring is not serving its purpose as a spring when squashed, it is becoming a "lock washer" of sorts, and it'll pop and do weird stuff.
If the actuator is shorted up a bit, there is room for the washer and gives some play for the spring to be a spring. I suppose you could pull up on the shaft and get some play on the vertical, but that is just basic design theory on the parts they chose to do the job.

 

[Kickman]

Dumb question - but did you disassemble the stick after you got it from me? I'm wondering if it's put together incorrectly, or if something else is going on.



I build and adjust all of my sticks to feel as good as possible before I ship them. I don't recall the one I sent you being that stiff, and certainly no stiffer than any others I've sold. I also usually add a shim washer under the e-clip to minimize the up/down play, so there should be very little. I can't really do much for the side-side play, as that's just due to the grommet being too big, but it shouldn't be so sloppy that it's affecting gameplay.



Are you sure the stick is together correctly, and that it isn't catching on anything under the CP? (Wires, etc?) Again, just a sanity check.

You have to disassemble it to install it some what, but it was reassembled exactly how it was received, verified buy stick I took out which is identical in every way except for the plastics on the leafs and the exploded diagram in the manual..

The only exception is that in this diagram it shows spacer washer above and below the grommet to be same part number, the one from you is thin plastic on top, and metal washer on bottom. This is exactly like the stick I removed which is correct skinny short 8 way round restriction hole..

And it also had metal washer below same as yours so I assume the manual had a mistake or revision..

Ether way it's reassembled exactly how I received it and there is nothing under the panel that would cause a restriction

 

[Kickman]

Sorry to muddy up this thread...

 

[andrewb]

The only exception is that in this diagram it shows spacer washer above and below the grommet to be same part number, the one from you is thin plastic on top, and metal washer on bottom. This is exactly like the stick I removed which is correct skinny short 8 way round restriction hole..

And it also had metal washer below same as yours so I assume the manual had a mistake or revision..

Regarding the washers, yes, many of the manuals show the plastic washers on top and bottom. But I have seen NIB sticks (and plenty of used sticks pulled from games) with the metal washer on the bottom.

My completely unproven theory on this is that maybe they originally used plastic on the bottom, but found that these would wear out pretty quickly, so maybe they changed it to metal later. That's the only explanation I have come up with.

I'm still concerned that something isn't right with your setup, but I've sent the new original grommet, and don't know what more to suggest. You'll have to give it a try. If the leafs are tuned right, it should take very little force to deflect the stick enough to actuate the leaf. If you're having to push hard to get the stick to register, maybe the leafs are out of adjustment. (?)

 

[Kickman]

Regarding the washers, yes, many of the manuals show the plastic washers on top and bottom. But I have seen NIB sticks (and plenty of used sticks pulled from games) with the metal washer on the bottom.



My completely unproven theory on this is that maybe they originally used plastic on the bottom, but found that these would wear out pretty quickly, so maybe they changed it to metal later. That's the only explanation I have come up with.



I'm still concerned that something isn't right with your setup, but I've sent the new original grommet, and don't know what more to suggest. You'll have to give it a try. If the leafs are tuned right, it should take very little force to deflect the stick enough to actuate the leaf. If you're having to push hard to get the stick to register, maybe the leafs are out of adjustment. (?)

Cool. I'm pretty sure it's me issue and not the stick. I can take pictures of it but I'll most likely do it on the zoo keeper thread or start a new one. I don't want people looking for these new grommets getting caught up
In my mess lol

Thanks Andy

 

[Kickman]

O one last thing before I scram and I can go check by is there a resource info on tuning leaf switches? Or handy tips. These look nice even no large gaps not touching each other.. but maybe there's help tip some place?

 

[fleetwood472]

Were these the 4lb grommets you had me test?
For Robo players those are going to feel a bit heavy-handed.

I think you will still have plenty of interest going forward with another run of 2lb'rs?


The Nibbler FPGA is coming out soon and that is a game which demands a wico 4way for the upper waves.
People might be thinking they can play it with a micro or other joy, but once they get good enough for wave 20 plus it'll become obvious to them.
And they'll be seeking 2lb grommets for a wico refurb. Even Tim McVey the Nibbler guy runs your 2lb'ers and thinks they are superb.

Hey Mark,

I think some older samples may have gotten mixed up when I sent them into you for testing. My softest grommets for robotron were made at 2 lbs and my slightly firmer grommets were made at around 4lbs. I'll send you 2 more of the 4lbs just to see what you think when you get a chance. My stock is almost gone but I figured it would be nice to get an opinion on these in a Robotron game.

Sorry to muddy up this thread...

No problem. I'm glad to hear the grommets worked out well for you!

Thanks for offering these up, Justin, I was pretty stoked when I saw you had these. I was actually wanting something with a little more resistance. Don't get me wrong, the originals are awesome, but if you wanted something with a little more push-back, you only had the hard-rubber repro on ebay to choose from. On my Tutankham, the controls just felt too soft, I probably use more force when playing games. So I tried this 2nd batch in my Tut and they felt right....like 3 bears right! I put some in my Dig Dug and Dragon's Lair too and really like the extra resistance, especially when hitting the joystick for each move in Dragon's Lair.

Thanks for the input man! Glad to hear!

 

[1500points]

I am sure you sent 4lb that i tested and even a 1lb which was too light and lacked resistance. I had marked dots on the rim with sharpies and i had 4 dotters.

4 was a bit heavy for long game.
2 is like mamma bear's porridge... just right.... or was that baby bear....

If you are not going to run any more would it be realistic to turn it over to someone like paradise arcade? That dude takes wico's seriously

 

[divingbuddy]

Bump........Update on the the replacement stock?

 

[shovelhed]

Grommets

Pm sent for 2 replacements

 

[fleetwood472]

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been on the forum much lately but I have now responded to all PM's. I am out of my softer 2lb grommets but do have some of my mildly firmer grommets available for $7.25 each. plus shipping.

Thanks!

 

[1500points]

Any plans on another run of 2's? Sounds like andrewb bought out your stock for the wico repairs but that still leaves a need.

I heard arcadeshop sells grommets now that are likely 1lb ish.

Still leaves an opening for yours....