Reproduction Parts Rant

joeyoravec

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If you reproduce arcade parts and want to help collector community then please:

Save the CAD and gerber files for PCBs
Save the mechanical drawings for wood/metal parts
Save the length, color, and connector specs for wiring
Save the scans and vector files for artwork

I'm not upset from one experience -- I'm upset from an entire week of exchanging PMs hunting for reproduction parts for several games. Everybody I've managed to connect with to the answer is "it's sold out. I'm unwilling to do another run, and I'm also not going to freely give OR sell you the design files to get it manufactured elsewhere"

It's awesome that parts were available at all as reproductions. It's not awesome if I have to redo the same work that you have sitting on your hard drive because your artwork or component is no longer available (even in resale) and you won't do another run.

Think about this when you buy parts. Insist that vendors publish information to sustain this hobby when they end-of-life a product. You are a drain on this hobby if you spend the 40 hours to vectorize artwork, make your buck (or break even), then force somebody else to go through the same process again because you don't want to do business.

Rant over.
 
You have to remember the work, time, r+d put into reproducing a part.

Honestly, i wouldnt give that info away either. I would perhaps sell it to someone else interested if i didnt plan on doing it anymore however.
 
You have to remember the work, time, r+d put into reproducing a part.

Honestly, i wouldnt give that info away either. I would perhaps sell it to someone else interested if i didnt plan on doing it anymore however.

If you don't plan on re-running something, then there really is no reason to sit on the information is there? Thats something I will never understand... sure, you may have put a lot of time/effort/money, whatever into it, and I hope you get what you want out of it, but why entomb valuable "stuff" forever just to have it? Its kind of like hoarding parts...

Not picking on you cadillacman, just jumping in on your boat ;)

Maybe I'm just missing something..
cheers
/Tim
 
If you don't plan on re-running something, then there really is no reason to sit on the information is there? Thats something I will never understand... sure, you may have put a lot of time/effort/money, whatever into it, and I hope you get what you want out of it, but why entomb valuable "stuff" forever just to have it? Its kind of like hoarding parts...

Not picking on you cadillacman, just jumping in on your boat ;)

Maybe I'm just missing something..
cheers
/Tim

Thats what im saying if you arent gonna do anything with it at least sell it..


BUT... how many collectors have games/parts they never play or plan to use that they just hang onto for the sake of hoarding...ERR.... i mean collecting reasons?

When i first got into the hobby i had to keep telling myself that not everyone associated with arcade games is a collector/preservationist. There are businesspeople mixed in there too.
 
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If you don't plan on re-running something, then there really is no reason to sit on the information is there? Thats something I will never understand... sure, you may have put a lot of time/effort/money, whatever into it, and I hope you get what you want out of it, but why entomb valuable "stuff" forever just to have it? Its kind of like hoarding parts...

Not picking on you cadillacman, just jumping in on your boat ;)

Maybe I'm just missing something..
cheers
/Tim


I'm with Caddy on this. Here is the historical problem with making your work available to the public...

Inevitably someone gets ahold of your designs, cuts corners, sends it off to China for mass(ish) production, and then puts your name on it claiming it was part of the initial production run. People then buy it, find out it is crap, and suddenly you are a hack because you screwed up the original design. It has happened many times before and will happen again. I have seen this happen with Jamma adaptors, power supply adaptors, control panels, and even complete game boards.


Another problem is there is often more than one hand in the pot on these reproductions. One guy may have been the front man but someone else may lay claim to the reverse engineering, yet another to the clean-up, and yet another person was involved in the final QA and production. Buyers rarely know all of this is going on because they are only interfacing with the salesman who may or may not be the product lead.
 
Agreed -- R&D time and effort is valuable. I expect nothing for free. Every single time I ended up asking "since you're not going to make the part again, then will you sell the specification / files" and the answer is "no". At least "yes and you can't afford it" would be an acceptable answer.

Of course I wouldn't even need the source files if I could buy the product (retail or resale). This rant is only regarding one-time runs. If it was a one-time thing, once you've made your buck then there should be no problem selling or sharing.
 
Seems to me if you want something that is unavailable, make it yourself. It's called free enterprise. I sure wish you would come over to mow my lawn. I would even pay you $50. But then you would have to buy a $400 air ticket, $100 to rent a car, $50 to rent a mower (unless you put it in your carry on), $10 on gas and other expenses, 8 hours of your time with travel. How's that $50 sound?
 
R&D time and effort is valuable.

How valuable is it to you?

Would you pay $30.00/hr for someone's work in CAD, Solidworks or similar application? What about the other hours on the phone, driving, and material costs involved in coming up short? Someone could have an easy 60 hours in time wrapped up in something and not even have much to show for it.

I think it is easy to get aggravated when someone hordes information, but think about how they must feel. "Here I have done all of this work and now someone just wants the benefit of my efforts."

Reproducing parts is a skill. In business, skills equal money.

The truth is some people are here for fun, some people are here to help, and some people are here to make money.
 
You might have better luck with just saying, I want to finance another run, lets work out the details.
 
How much did you offer them for the engineering you think should be free?
 
Having been there (on the design side). I don't see giving any of my work away. I also would not sell it as I will never get what I have into in it timewise.
 
How valuable is it to you? Would you pay $30.00/hr...
Of course, quite valuable. If you need an unobtainable part then you must a) try to buy an entire machine and scrap it for that part or b) pay to get it reproduced. You'd think a seller with the files sitting there would do business if you're prepared to spend significantly more to redo the same work. I don't get it.
 
Of course, quite valuable. If you need an unobtainable part then you must a) try to buy an entire machine and scrap it for that part or b) pay to get it reproduced. You'd think a seller with the files sitting there would do business if you're prepared to spend significantly more to redo the same work. I don't get it.


It is just not common practice to just give away art files or schematics. Let's say I have 80 hours each into these projects and I do limited runs as a way to earn side money and help the community, you want me to give you those files because I am out of stock and I haven't set a projected rerun date? What about in two years when I lose my job and I need money? Can I fall back on earning side income if I gave you all my files?

This is a little crazy if you ask me. Wait just like everyone else for the parts you need or bulldoze your way to getting what you want with cash because the only other sane answer is learn how to do the creative that goes into making these projects happen and do it yourself.
 
You might have better luck with just saying, I want to finance another run, lets work out the details.

This.

Offer to finance but realize they will be driving the boat as they have the intellectual property you desire, so it would only be appropriate to give them a slice of the pie while you take all of the risk
 
I think it's a little funny that people try and claim ownership over repros when they're essentially ripping off someone elses work. I'm with the OP, if you're not going to monetize it then set it free. You can try and justify your behavior by pointing towards the amount of time it took to reproduce, but you're still being selfish and buyers should avoid those vendors.
 
Just post a WTB ad for the reproduced part your looking for. we have several douchebags on here that buy the stuff, sit on it, then try to cash in at 4X original selling price.
 
but you're still being selfish and buyers should avoid those vendors.
Then you wouldnt be able to buy anything from anyone.
I dont think theres a person/vendor out there that just gives it away.

regardless of how you categorize it" They still ripped it off from someone else"
I dont think most relize how much time and work goes into reverse engineering something be it part or art. and to do another run would take another investment of both time and money.
When you decide to take that part/art on yourself see if your still willing to share that work
and post it up for the www. then see how long it takes before that is being reprod again by someone else selling on it on ebay. someone who did nothing but profiting from your time, hard work, labor of love.
this makes the most sense.


I'm with Caddy on this. Here is the historical problem with making your work available to the public...

Inevitably someone gets ahold of your designs, cuts corners, sends it off to China for mass(ish) production, and then puts your name on it claiming it was part of the initial production run. People then buy it, find out it is crap, and suddenly you are a hack because you screwed up the original design. It has happened many times before and will happen again. I have seen this happen with Jamma adaptors, power supply adaptors, control panels, and even complete game boards.


Another problem is there is often more than one hand in the pot on these reproductions. One guy may have been the front man but someone else may lay claim to the reverse engineering, yet another to the clean-up, and yet another person was involved in the final QA and production. Buyers rarely know all of this is going on because they are only interfacing with the salesman who may or may not be the product lead.

though I can see the point to this, and I can say in my case if/when I die (I plan to repro myself at some point) Ill be sure to release all my scans and art.
 
When you die?

lol.. *knock on wood*

Assuming you're not like 80, that might be of little use by the time it would be effective...and good luck to anyone trying to locate said resources after the fact.

I couldn't even find a will for my dad when he passed away, despite knowing that several legal wills existed at certain points in time. I executor'ed his estate for about 6 months getting everything cleared up and found nothing. Thankfully everything went amicably as far as splitting stuff up but yeah....good luck to anyone trying to extract rights to use x-y-z from someone you don't even really know after they're dead. That would be one hell of an estate plan to have all that stuff released and hosted for availability after you're gone.
 
I think it's a little funny that people try and claim ownership over repros when they're essentially ripping off someone elses work. I'm with the OP, if you're not going to monetize it then set it free. You can try and justify your behavior by pointing towards the amount of time it took to reproduce, but you're still being selfish and buyers should avoid those vendors.


Man this issue is as much of a controversy as the abortion issue. yikes
 
I think it's a little funny that people try and claim ownership over repros when they're essentially ripping off someone elses work. I'm with the OP, if you're not going to monetize it then set it free. You can try and justify your behavior by pointing towards the amount of time it took to reproduce, but you're still being selfish and buyers should avoid those vendors.

I don't think any of the repro heros are claiming the original artwork, or the design aspects.. They're claiming their own work.. Often, a ridiculous amount of time goes into just getting something like a CPO to market. I'm always surprised that this stuff keeps getting made, and it wouldn't if there wasn't a love for the hobby. No one would go into business doing this stuff PURELY for the income.
 
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