Remove old Woodgrain Vinyl Before Laminating?

8BitMonk

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Looking for opinions on whether I should removed existing woodgrain vinyl from a cab before applying laminate.

The last cab I did I stripped down to the wood, put on polycrylic and applied new vinyl which took a lot of time and was a pain. Using vinyl I was more concerned about the surface being smooth since it shows every bump but wouldn't have that concern with laminate.

The only downside I see is if the existing vinyl starts to peel off with the laminate attached to it but that Atari woodgrain vinyl is such a b*tch to get off I can't see it going anywhere. Thinking maybe I just sand it down to rough up the surface and throw laminate over the top.

Thoughts, anyone done either or both ways?

Thanks!
 
Oh yes, of course. Laminate doesn't even bond the best on plywood. MDF or particle board is the best substrate. Remove vinyl, fix dings, make sure the edge is good, as that's what your flush trim bit will follow to trim the laminate.
 
It depends how thin and how 'attached' the vinyl is. Sometimes the vinyl fuses with the substrate and you end up gouging the ever loving shit out of the wood just trying to remove it. I try to remove as much of it as I can first until it gets too hard to remove. Then I hit the whole thing with a 50 or 60 grit sanding disc, then a 120 and get it even and smooth enough. Then I clean the surface and slather it with contact cement and apply laminate over whatever is left.
 
Yeah I was pretty sure I should remove it *grumble grumble*. Thanks for confirming.

So how about a DK cab, I can just sand the surface to rough it up and put the laminate over right, nothing to remove? I think some had a thin laminate and some had enamel type paint, mine looks like enamel.

It depends how thin and how 'attached' the vinyl is. Sometimes the vinyl fuses with the substrate and you end up gouging the ever loving shit out of the wood just trying to remove it.

<-- This happened on my last go around, it wouldn't come off in sheets with a heatgun and I had to scrape the hell out of it. I thought Citristrip might help but it just took off a top plastic layer and still left the substrate stuck to the wood.
 
Yeah I was pretty sure I should remove it *grumble grumble*. Thanks for confirming.

So how about a DK cab, I can just sand the surface to rough it up and put the laminate over right, nothing to remove? I think some had a thin laminate and some had enamel type paint, mine looks like enamel.



<-- This happened on my last go around, it wouldn't come off in sheets with a heatgun and I had to scrape the hell out of it. I thought Citristrip might help but it just took off a top plastic layer and still left the substrate stuck to the wood.

On DK, yes, 60 grit should do. The glue needs something to bite to. This is just MY personal experience, but I've had terrible results with plywood. Plywood will 'move' more than particle board or MDF, which are dimensionally stable for the most part. Plywood also warps. I've had laminate, using contact cement, bubble and lift, and I'm pretty sure I did it by the instructions.

I made some replacement panels for my SW cockpit (the access panels, kick panel) and a Football cabinet using white melamine, because a) I wanted particle board like original and b) white on one side was fine. I found that (similar to DK cabinet) the melamine panel was too slick and the contact cement didn't apply evenly as it didn't stick as well as it could. I hit the one side of the white melamine panel with 60 grit on a sander, enough to remove some of the white, get it very smooth, and rough it up. Contact cement then applied better, seemed to stick. The panels I laminated 6 months ago haven't separated or bubbled at all.
 
I've laminated a lot of games, some 15 years ago, sometimes removing old stuff and sometimes not, depends on condition of the original. I always rough it up with a sandpaper disk. Only adhesion problem was over smooth old laminate when I didn't rough it up first.

I haven't had problems over plywood though, but it was good furniture grade plywood, not home building ply. Front of my 720 degrees is ply with black formica over it.

I also think the water based contact cement isn't nearly as good as the other kind that has to be cleaned up with mineral spirits.

Wade
 
Ok, one more question for the gurus.

The weather is going to be in the mid 40-50's around here in the next couple weeks and I'd like to get a couple cabs laminated. My garage is insulated and my propane heater easily gets it up to 70 degrees, am I ok to laminate under those conditions even though it's a little cool? Anyone done this in colder temps?

I'd keep the laminate and the contact cement inside until the garage is warm but obviously the cabs will be out there so the wood will potentially be cold.

Thanks for any guidance!
 
My thoughts - contact cement stinks outside, and I'm not sensitive to solvent smells, but it's bad.

Fumes and flame?
 
My thoughts - contact cement stinks outside, and I'm not sensitive to solvent smells, but it's bad.

Fumes and flame?

I can crack the door. :) Is the temp an issue though.

Use a stripper to remove the old vinyl instead of doing it by hand.

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showpost.php?p=3613192&postcount=20

I'll have to give this a try, I've tried Citristrip and that heavy duty Jasco stuff but neither totally removed the vinyl to the wood. They stripped the top plastic layer off but left the woodgrain print still on the wood.
 
I could see the citrus/safe strippers not working, and could see the one in the link working.. It looks more like StrypEez, which will burn your skin if you get it on your hand, you'll know.
 
Regarding using strippers, if it is thin vinyl like an Atari cabinet or similar, yes paint stripper sometimes works. I've used a heat gun with good results also. But it depends on the vinyl. Just have to try different approaches to see.

Regarding temperature. Cold temps won't really hurt it. You shouldn't use the adhesive inside or around heaters (seriously). It has similar warnings all over the can. I HAVE laminated in cold weather, outside. It caused no problems. It doesn't really affect the contact cement. Yes, the wood on the cabinet might expand or contract a little, but it's not enough to matter. Wood changes more with moisture than heat, and you would probably only have it outside for a short period, then be bringing it back inside.

This MsPac I laminated over vinyl after roughing it with a sanding disc wheel on a drill, 12 years ago. No durability problems.

This Mario Brothers I laminated in the freezing cold 10 years ago, no issues with that either. I had it inside before and after, the actual laminating outside was probably only an hour. I used a sanding disc on it first also.

Wade
 

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The Klean Strip stripper / heat gun combo worked really well on my Tempest Cabaret. I Sprayed the stripper on, let it sit 20 minutes then took a heat gun and scraper to it.

I actually did very little scraping, mostly just broke the surface where the vinyl had bubbled up with the scraper and then (wearing some rubber gloves) was able to get a couple fingers in behind the vinyl as I hit the surrounding area with the heat gun and it peeled off in large chunks as I went.

Worked very well, much easier than the Missile Command cabaret I did, we'll see how the Frogger goes.
 

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That's really good to hear! What brand of stripper did you use, you mentioned spraying it on?

Yeah definitely need the gloves. The stronger stripper will eat through a rubber glove quick if you get any on it. I use disposable foam brushes to spread the stuff around that comes in a can.
 
That's really good to hear! What brand of stripper did you use, you mentioned spraying it on?

I used the Klean Strip sprayable version, my Home Depot had a gallon bundled with a mini spray bottle for $23 so I decided to give it a try since applying it with a brush was one of my pet peeves. The reviews are mixed but it worked really well for this, you have to be careful of the overspray though.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Stripper-GKS221/100207981
 
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