Recel "Criterium 75" (EM), stuck in TILT

realpingo

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Hello all,

New to the forum, so I hope I'm not breaking any rules here. :)

Anyway, I own a Criterium 75, EM-version, produced by Spanish Recel back in 1975. I am currently repairing it. However, the game is stuck in TILT when powered on, and I'm not sure on what the problem is.

There are FOUR tilt-switches. Two that are normally ON and two that are normally OFF. All four seems fine, and I have checked connections etc.

The only documents I have available are the ones located on this site (scroll down to the Criterium 75-game):
http://files.flipperspill.no/Support/Pinball/Pinball_Manuals.htm

I don't know how to go further. Any help would be useful! Thanks!

/ Pingo
 
I actually made the game start and come out from TILT by pressing the RESET RELAY manually. That removed the Tilt hold, added a credit and put the game in play!

BUT several problems are still here:

* Everytime the game is on from being turned off, the game is in TILT (and has to be started by manually activating the reset relay in the cabinette).
* The left flipper doesn't work. The flipper switch seems fine, though. Coil problem?
* When the ball rolls down into the middle lane and ends up in what should be GAME OVER, the switch is activade and work, but the ball-in-play number does not advance. Game continues on ball #1.
* Seems I can't add credits?

Any help would be useful. Where to start? :)
 
Start cleaning the stepper units!!

Thanks for reply. Appreciate it.

The BALLS UNIT "looks" ok. When advancing it manually and then turning on the game (by manually activating the RESET RELAY) the Balls Unit resets properly. However, when the ball drops in the middle lane, it gets kicked out but the balls unit does not advance.

My own suspicion (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that what ever triggers the Balls Unit does not work, because this stepper doesn't even TRY to add a ball. There's a relay in the cabinette of the game that is called ADD BALLS RELAY. When it is manually activated, nothing happens. And it never seems to be activated by anything else in the game either. Does this relay even have anything to do with it? If not - what triggers the Balls Unit stepper unit?

What I experienced is that when the Reset Relay is manually triggered, the HOLD RELAY and the TILT HOLD RELAY are activated and pulled. When the game is turned off, these are de-activated and fall back into their "normal" positions - which is apperantly locking the game in TILT. Aren't these two relays supposed to be activated by POWER ON?

Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for newbie stupid questions. :D

/ Pingo
 
Does the ball count stepper manually change the ball in play? Start there. Snap a picture of what it looks like in there. I'm no expert but I just had the same problem lol
 
Nice pin to have PG. Love to get my hands on a Recel pin (Fair Fight, Check Mate).

A lot of time when I work on Em's, its a matter of switch adjustments and in some cases, giving them a good cleaning....
 
I'd suggest checking the Reset relay you pressed on. It sounds like a cold solder joint or a bad connection (relay contact wipe insufficient).

That, or buy a bunch of flex files, and start filing.

You should also check your intra-connections at the pins and sockets, looking for high resistance. If you have any that ohm out over an ohm or ten, you need to clean them up.
 
StreetzKing + Schusler: Thanks for input. I'll check what you say and see if I get any improvements.

ArcadeTechGW:
I had some probs with a few other bad solder joints, so this could absolutley be the problem. I'll check the ohm too.

Thanks all for input - any more/other ideas, please post! I appreciate it!
 
Hi,

I am by far an expert in EM games, but have fixed the ones that I do have (and nearly lost it at times with the Dodge City).

One thing I learned is that when it seems like you have multiple problems, you may in fact only have one. If you are able to obtain a circuit drawing, that would makes life easier, but that being said you may have to muddle your way through it.

As per my reply to your PM:

I would first check all the switches that are in the ball trough under the apron and make sure they are functioning correctly. The game may not know that the ball has returned home (or is home). Check to make sure the switches are activated when the ball rolls over them (not with you finger).

As a note: if you are going to take any of the steppers apart, make sure you mark them as to thier position/alignment before you do anything. Use something to scratch the surfaces as a felt marker may get 'washed' off while you are cleaning. Activate each of the stepper coils by hand several times and note if the mechanical is working smoothly - if they are, I wouldn't mess with them unless they are really dirty and you want them clean. ;)

Also, IMHO (based on 30+ years in the electronics industry) - I don't see cold solder joints being a factor in EM games. This is only a problem that a person would see when circuit boards are involved, but the nature of the connections in an EM game would make them non-existant.
 
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One thing I learned is that when it seems like you have multiple problems, you may in fact only have one. If you are able to obtain a circuit drawing, that would makes life easier, but that being said you may have to muddle your way through it.

This is my view on it as well.

I DO have a schematics (this one: http://files.flipperspill.no/Support/Pinball/Manuals/Recel_Criterium_75_electrical_schematic.pdf ), but when it comes to the S-relay (marked START in the schematics but RESET in the cabinette), then I'm kind of lost. (see below)

I would first check all the switches that are in the ball trough under the apron and make sure they are functioning correctly. The game may not know that the ball has returned home (or is home). Check to make sure the switches are activated when the ball rolls over them (not with you finger).

AFAIK this switch etc is OK. Can't be 100% sure of course at this point.

Now - to explain this a bit more logical, this is what happens:

1. When the game is turned ON, the HOLD (R) and TILT HOLD (H) seems to make the game stuck in TILT.
2. When I press the START/RESTART (S) relay, the R and H relays are activated and the game comes out from TILT. If the credit wheel has credits, the game starts immediatly on player 1, ball 1.
3. When ball rolls down "home", the game does not sense this and a new ball is not added. ADD BALL relay (P) does not have any effect whatsoever if activated manually.

So - I suspect that the "start up sequence" is not working properly. When the game starts "something" is supposed to activate the S relay, but it doesn't. MAYBE this "something" also effects the other errors described above (at this point, obviously I don't know).

Problem is - I have no idea what the startup sequence is or what is supposed to trigger the S relay. Would really appreciate some help on that, reading that part of schematics etc.
 
Sorry I have no real thoughts about you questions, the drawing is a bit odd to what I am use to and I would have to think about it some more (I find it odd that they would show a connector on a drawing unless it was some sort of selector) - however, does the 8 pin connector go to the coin door?
 
Sorry I have no real thoughts about you questions, the drawing is a bit odd to what I am use to and I would have to think about it some more (I find it odd that they would show a connector on a drawing unless it was some sort of selector) - however, does the 8 pin connector go to the coin door?

Both these connectors go to the coin-door.

From our investigations today, we believe that the connector (a 2-pin connector btw) from the coin door that goes into the 6-pin connector on this scheme, might be put in wrong. We do not KNOW this, since it's a bit weird to read this schematics and we don't have a manual. :(

Anyone with a PDF manual for Criterium 75 out there? :)
 
If you have credits on the machine, pressing the "replay" button does nothing?

I would also check the contacts on the motor and verfiy that they are as listed on the schematic (whether they are open or closed).

The service manual in this vintage may not help, they usually only list parts.

Does the game go through the start-up sequence (or anything) when you coin up? Check your slam switches.
 
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If you have credits on the machine, pressing the "replay" button does nothing?

With "replay" button - do you mean the "start" button that is on the front of most pinball machines? Criterium does not have a "start" button.

I would also check the contacts on the motor and verfiy that they are as listed on the schematic (whether they are open or closed).

Motor SEEMS OK, but not 100% sure. This is one of the things we're looking at.

The service manual in this vintage may not help, they usually only list parts.

Does the game go through the start-up sequence (or anything) when you coin up? Check your slam switches.

When credit is added, the motor turns on and seems to do what it is "supposed" to do. Credit is added to the credit wheel. So I ASSUME that the credit mechanism works properly.

Slam switches + other two tilt switches are OK.
 
not a Critter-um, but...

The service manual in this vintage may not help, they usually only list parts.

That's about it. A couple sheets with some part numbers. John's Jukes has some Recel parts, btw.

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Game says "TILT" when switched on - I'm gonna call that "normal behavior". TILT light goes out and game resets when "START" button is pressed.

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"START" button should be in the door.
 

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<snip>

Game says "TILT" when switched on - I'm gonna call that "normal behavior". TILT light goes out and game resets when "START" button is pressed.

<snip>

That was my understanding by looking at the diagram, which is why I asked about pressing the start button (of course this assumes credits are on the game also).

Referning to this pictured posted: http://www.svenskaflippersallskapet.com/newgalleri/3583b.jpg

If there are credits available and the "replay" (start) button is pushed it will energize the S coil and clear the tilt.

If the start button does nothing, verify the switches that are in the "V" coil row (JP4, 0 Play (should be closed if credits), W, PM1, 1C & 2B on the motor assembly and finally the anti-cheat sw). Also check the V contact that is connected between the V and S coils.
 
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Thank you SO much for that picture and the help with the START-button, above! This actually did the trick!!

I just played my first series of 5 balls EVER on this pinball, and I'm VERY happy! Yeah, sure, the points doesn't work correctly, the credits is messed up and I have some more cleaning to do - but it WORKS and it actually advances balls AND player, correctly.

Thanks a lot everyone that have helped out. I really appreciate it!

/ Pingo
 
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