Re-drawing Older, Unreadable Schematics

angelcare

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After having to work on a couple of games for customers, I needed to dig out the vintage schematics we had in our files, along with a magnifying glass to try and decipher some of the old faded markings. Well, hours later, going back and forth from the machine to the schematic and back, I got pissed and walked away, only to return and get frustrated again.

In short, I've redrawn the wiring diagrams for Sea Wolf and the Ms Pac Man upright, along with the Midway PC 80-904 power supply. Took the jpegs and brought them to a local printer buddy and had them printed to size that was useable. (14" x 37 ½" for the Sea Wolf, like the original) No strain on the eyes, thank you.

Anyways, would there be any interest out there in having other games done? Just something to throw out there. Takes me a couple of days of doing this at night, but if it would help out LMK.

Got the above posted on our website at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html
towards the bottom of the page. As I convert more, I'll add them to the site.

By the way, you can zoom in on the jpgs and print them out, if you want to piece them together, instead of taking them to a printer.
 
After having to work on a couple of games for customers, I needed to dig out the vintage schematics we had in our files, along with a magnifying glass to try and decipher some of the old faded markings. Well, hours later, going back and forth from the machine to the schematic and back, I got pissed and walked away, only to return and get frustrated again.

In short, I've redrawn the wiring diagrams for Sea Wolf and the Ms Pac Man upright, along with the Midway PC 80-904 power supply. Took the jpegs and brought them to a local printer buddy and had them printed to size that was useable. (14" x 37 ½" for the Sea Wolf, like the original) No strain on the eyes, thank you.

Anyways, would there be any interest out there in having other games done? Just something to throw out there. Takes me a couple of days of doing this at night, but if it would help out LMK.

Got the above posted on our website at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html
towards the bottom of the page. As I convert more, I'll add them to the site.

By the way, you can zoom in on the jpgs and print them out, if you want to piece them together, instead of taking them to a printer.

Looks great!
 
Those do look very nice, the ms.pac's way cleaner than the original manual :) Thanks for doing that !

- James
 
I've been doing something similar, but have just switched to a vector format. That way it retains the legibility regardless of scaling. Mine are not quite to this level of quality, but I was just puttering, trying to get something to help with board repairs.

All of us doing this should probably try to standardize on a product we can all afford (sorry a real license for AI is out of my budget). I've been using a product called Draw Plus from Serif Software. They have a free version and a real cheap version. I upgraded to the $49 version and it seems to do everything I need. I am sure there are other CAD type drawing packages that would work also.

Just a thought.

ken
 
The early Midway stuff were actual blueprints. Naturally they fade over time.

Alot of my Ardac bill changer schematics are the same way. I took a ruler and a fine black ink pen and re-traced my schematics so now they are easy to read.
 
re-drawing schematics

If you are going to re-draw schematics, you might want to look at a schematic capture package. gEDA and TinyCAD are two open-source packages, and I think they can both output the netlist in standard formats, and I think they can both output as various kinds of graphics.

These are also programs that are made for entering schematics, so it's generally a bit easier to do schematic-type things (like move stuff around and have the connections follow properly).

By capturing the schematic as a schematic, instead of just a graphic, we get two advantages:
1) It's equivalent to a vector format (output as big as you like).
2) If someone ever wants to try to produce the item in question as a re-pro board, one of the first things they'll need will be a schematic of the original to start with. If you have to enter it by hand anyway, then you might was well give a guy who needs it for something a leg up. (or so it seems to me).
 
As the others said, those look great! I would recommend doing a vector version if your going to put the time into it. That way you can print at any scale and more importantly, you can search for Part identifiers.

But I won't turn down any JPG ones you put out. :)

Depending on what program you drew them in, you might be able to save them to PDF and have the text searchable.

-VJ
 
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CAD Package Suggestion

Re-drawing schematics in a cad package is a good idea!

if a common format could be agreed, then the diagrams could be shared easily, and, re-drawn schematics could be collaborative works/projects! if agreement is too hard to reach, then at least a set of formats that converters are available for to permit easy conversion to/from products used to develop or modify schematics!

A couple of alternatives (some from my experience, some from others experience):
1. Kicad -
free, open source package that has versions for Windows, Linux & Mac, can produce netlists and there are some importers for various bits and pieces. I use it to produce schematics and pcb designs (small scale stuff). kicad has a few foibles with it's user interface, but if you can spend some time to work out how to drive it (the docs are not very comprehensive) and can bear the occasional crash it is a very good program!
Websites:
Wilkipeadia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiCAD
Main page http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Parts Libraries http://www.kicadlib.org/
Data Files: drawings, pcbs and parts libs files are in ascii/text formats. nice!

2. Eagle -
has community (limited) version but the limits are on pcb sizes and the number of layers, also has paid up versions and pro versions - these remove the limits.
Websites:
Wilkipeadia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_(program)
Main page http://www.cadsoft.de/
Parts Libraries http://chemie.pedf.cuni.cz/eagle/eagle.html

both are quite good -
and adding similar info for others suggested to date in this thread...

3. gEDA -
IIRC there were some discussions about merging gEDA and Kicad
Websites:
Wilkipeadia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEDA
Main page http://www.geda.seul.org/
Parts Libraries ?

4. TinyCAD
Websites:
Wilkipeadia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TinyCAD
Main page http://tinycad.sourceforge.net/
Parts Libraries ?

5. Draw Plus from Serif Software
Websites:
Wilkipeadia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DrawPlus
Main page - http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/DrawPlus/key_features.asp
Parts Libraries ?

Some General Info:
Article on EDA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_design_automation
Comparisons
EDA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EDA_Software
EDA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Free_EDA_software
EDA/CAM - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CAD_editors_for_CAM
Larger comparison - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Electronic_design_automation_software
 
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Thank you all for the constructive input that you have been providing.

As I stated, my objective was to make over the faded and torn originals into a readable schematic. I was trying to make over the schematics as close to the originals as I could. In doing so, I was using GIMP to scale and redraw them, which in turn could be saved in a variety of image files (no PDF converters though). I had made a file of various components to reuse.

I agree that we should standardize remakes for future use and have been looking into the schematic programs that you have mentioned. Running a Windows system on this end, I am now playing around with KiCad and TinyCAD. I need to redo the Sea Wolf Sound System board and will try this out in both programs.

Another thought to throw out. Which would be more preferable, making the schematic as close to the original looking (preservation), or providing it in the vector format which will not resemble the originals?

I feel that on the repair side, the vectors would serve the purpose, along with providing future use in repro'ing a board if feasible, saving time in having to rework a schematic.

Let me know your thoughts!!

Gene
 
Thank you all for the constructive input that you have been providing.

As I stated, my objective was to make over the faded and torn originals into a readable schematic. I was trying to make over the schematics as close to the originals as I could. In doing so, I was using GIMP to scale and redraw them, which in turn could be saved in a variety of image files (no PDF converters though). I had made a file of various components to reuse.

I agree that we should standardize remakes for future use and have been looking into the schematic programs that you have mentioned. Running a Windows system on this end, I am now playing around with KiCad and TinyCAD. I need to redo the Sea Wolf Sound System board and will try this out in both programs.

Another thought to throw out. Which would be more preferable, making the schematic as close to the original looking (preservation), or providing it in the vector format which will not resemble the originals?

I feel that on the repair side, the vectors would serve the purpose, along with providing future use in repro'ing a board if feasible, saving time in having to rework a schematic.

Let me know your thoughts!!

Gene

To me it doesn't need to be anywhere close to the original as long as it's an improvement.

One improvement I could see, would be adding the sectioning off of areas of the schematics like Atari does. So basically you would put a box around the area that dealt with graphics, sound, input, etc... would make trouble shooting a lot faster.

I also have a large format printer (13x19) so being able to print on that size paper would be a plus.
 
Okay, so I redrew the sound board using TinyCAD, a bit more user friendlier than KiCAD IMHO. I used the original size of the schematic (12"x20").

Finishing the redraw, the file saves as a .DSN file. The exports are available as image files, PNG or EMF types. I saved in each format and uploaded them. The PNG file looks ok, but the EMF file is screwed up, size wise. Didn't have the time to play with it to find out what is wrong.

http://www.dursell.com/Links/SeaWolfSound.png

http://www.dursell.com/Links/SeaWolfSound.emf

Now, if you want to print out the saved vector file, you have to use TinyCAD to open the DSN file, or any of the suggested programs, KiCAD saves as an SCH file. So you will need the CAD program for any conversions done, depending on which of the CAD programs are used to create them.

As for preparing components on the schematic to provide output to a netlist, it would be time consuming, as each component entered would have to have it's value assigned as a minimum.

Being a novice at working with CAD programs, I'd like to hear from some of you that have been working in this area, for suggestions and tips.

Beyond a readable schematic, which is what I had started this originally, everything else is extra and would require a fair amount of time to complete.
 
Okay, so I redrew the sound board using TinyCAD, a bit more user friendlier than KiCAD IMHO. I used the original size of the schematic (12"x20").

Finishing the redraw, the file saves as a .DSN file. The exports are available as image files, PNG or EMF types. I saved in each format and uploaded them. The PNG file looks ok, but the EMF file is screwed up, size wise. Didn't have the time to play with it to find out what is wrong.

http://www.dursell.com/Links/SeaWolfSound.png

http://www.dursell.com/Links/SeaWolfSound.emf

Now, if you want to print out the saved vector file, you have to use TinyCAD to open the DSN file, or any of the suggested programs, KiCAD saves as an SCH file. So you will need the CAD program for any conversions done, depending on which of the CAD programs are used to create them.

As for preparing components on the schematic to provide output to a netlist, it would be time consuming, as each component entered would have to have it's value assigned as a minimum.

Being a novice at working with CAD programs, I'd like to hear from some of you that have been working in this area, for suggestions and tips.

Beyond a readable schematic, which is what I had started this originally, everything else is extra and would require a fair amount of time to complete.

could you add the tinycad dsn file as well ? i have used kicad so i wouldnt mind having a look at the drawing in tinycad to compare. the png sample looks nice and clean!
 
In short, I've redrawn the wiring diagrams for Sea Wolf and the Ms Pac Man upright, along with the Midway PC 80-904 power supply. Took the jpegs and brought them to a local printer buddy and had them printed to size that was useable. (14" x 37 ½" for the Sea Wolf, like the original) No strain on the eyes, thank you.

I like it! I like it!

Well, the font- not so much..

I guess legibility trumps choice of font though. I don't know how many times I've tried to figure out which pin number on one of those drawings was listed. "Is that J4-8?" Getting closer to the paper or holding it to the light is no help.

Thanks.
 
Have uploaded the DSN file at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html

Right click the mouse on the link to save, otherwise it opens in a new window as an XML file.

As far as fonts, I used Arial, Regular at a size of 10. Would a bold style be an improvement?
 
Have uploaded the DSN file at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html

Right click the mouse on the link to save, otherwise it opens in a new window as an XML file.

As far as fonts, I used Arial, Regular at a size of 10. Would a bold style be an improvement?

You might want to try Courier New as that is a Fixed Width font. Might be easier to read for something like that.
 
Have uploaded the DSN file at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html

Right click the mouse on the link to save, otherwise it opens in a new window as an XML file.

As far as fonts, I used Arial, Regular at a size of 10. Would a bold style be an improvement?

got the dsn file thank you! nice in xml, this means it is feasible to convert schematics between Kicad and tinycad with a little bit of effort to s=write a script or 5.

parts libraries are a diff matter as in an mdb (jet) database format.
 
Monaco GP, please.
(just kidding)

After having to work on a couple of games for customers, I needed to dig out the vintage schematics we had in our files, along with a magnifying glass to try and decipher some of the old faded markings. Well, hours later, going back and forth from the machine to the schematic and back, I got pissed and walked away, only to return and get frustrated again.

In short, I've redrawn the wiring diagrams for Sea Wolf and the Ms Pac Man upright, along with the Midway PC 80-904 power supply. Took the jpegs and brought them to a local printer buddy and had them printed to size that was useable. (14" x 37 ½" for the Sea Wolf, like the original) No strain on the eyes, thank you.

Anyways, would there be any interest out there in having other games done? Just something to throw out there. Takes me a couple of days of doing this at night, but if it would help out LMK.

Got the above posted on our website at: http://www.dursell.com/Links.html
towards the bottom of the page. As I convert more, I'll add them to the site.

By the way, you can zoom in on the jpgs and print them out, if you want to piece them together, instead of taking them to a printer.
 
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