Questions about building a cocktail machine

John I

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I have been contemplating getting a single video game to compliment my pinball machines. I don't have a lot of room and a cocktail cabinet is the best form factor. I have done a lot of thinking, but I am basically a NOOB when it comes to vids. I have a lot of mechanical and electronic experience and can build/fix just about anything including pins. I am mostly interested in the classic style games Pacman, Galaga, Space Invaders, etc and not the Neo Geo type games or head to head fighting games. Right now I am leaning towards a 60-in-1 JAMMA vertical board set.

Below is what I am thinking and some questions. Any answers, help, comments, constructive criticism or bashing my ignorance would be appreciated. Thanks!

First of all, I want the cabinet to be brand new and I want to build it as a kit and wire it from the ground up. I live in Florida, so I want it to be solid wood or maybe plywood - no MDF or particle board (melamine). I want it to be glued and pinned together. None of those cam lock things.

1) Should I go with MAME or JAMMA 60-in-1? I have all the needed PC parts, but it seems like JAMMA is more of a plug and play setup that I won't have to mess with a ton of menus, setup and millions of games that I will never play. I am leaning towards JAMMA because I want guests to be able to turn it on and play with a minimum of coaching.

2) Should I get the third control panel? I was figuring that I would not get one if I go the JAMMA route and I would get it if I go MAME.

3) Does anyone have experience with this company and their Cabinet kits? These are the best that I have found thus far for my needs. Did I miss another vendor with cocktail kits not made of MDF/particle?
http://www.arcadedepot.com/HTML/kits.html

4) Does anyone have experience or comments on these monitors? I really want a flat screen. I am thinking about the 19 inch. Will the 26" version fit in the above cabinets? Is there another flat screen option in the 22" wide range?
http://www.hollandcomputers.com/productcart/pc/showsearchresults.asp?IDBrand=398

5) I have a spare 22" wide LCD monitor, but if I mounted it I won't be able to access the on/off switch or front panel buttons. Am I right in thinking this is a show stopper? Also, viewing angle might be a problem?

6) Do I need a coin door? Seems like a waste of money and an eyesore. This game will never be anything but home use.

7) What are the pros and cons of 8-way vs 4-way joysticks? Should I go with 8-way on both control panels?

8) Springing the extra $ for a tempered glass top instead of plexi seems like a good idea?

That's a lot of questions. Thanks for any inputs!

John
Cocoa Florida
 
You might imagine that a cocktail takes up less room than an upright, but it in fact takes up way more. It is shorter, but has a footprint about 1.5x as big, plus the room needed to put chairs by it. And unless you're putting it in a clear space it will look way out of place.

Also unless you copy a Joust cocktail or other similar game you will sort of be limited to switching off players or playing games that have an actual cocktail mode (most of which were vertical monitor orientation mind you).

1.) JAMMA 60-in-1. MAME setups are not very compact and if you're new to this it may not turn out as clean looking. But again you'd be looking for a product that works, probably a vertical only 60-in-1 with mostly cocktail supported games and maybe trackball support.

2.) Do you want to play games with a horizontal monitor orientation and 2 players side-by-side? If so then a 3rd panel on the long side would almost be prerequisite.

3.) Not me personally, no, sorry.

4.) Pass. I'd be wary of a flat screen when using a cocktail though, especially LCDs. The optimal viewing angle could make it crap for a cocktail. I would think a flat CRT monitor would be fine, but unsure.

As for fitting it in the cabinet you linked to these outfits typically offer 2 sizes. They just rescale their CNC cut files to make a bigger cabinet. Arcadeshop does that anyways.

5.) Depends. If it does not have a "power on on recovery" feature to make it turn back on when you fire up the 110VAC to the machine, then you'd have to rig something up with the power button and potentially even a relay. *I* wouldn't even want to be bothered with that, if you're new to this it could really be a daunting task to figure it out on your own.

6.) No. But then you might need a credit button for games that don't support free play.

7.) Get switchable joysticks that have a rotating restrictor plate on the bottom. Then you don't have to choose. But if you can't be bothered then get 8-ways. Some games that used 4-ways may play like ass though since the game doesn't really know how to handle the diagonals.

8.) Yes. You're not going to save much with plexi anyways, are you? And plexi isn't as easily cleaned, scratches easier than a mofo, too.
 
If you are going to build a cocktail you might want to check out these:

Dptwiz (Ohio I think)

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=173438&page=9
brett019.jpg



Ou Flight (from Texas)

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=199513
attachment.php
 
Thanks for the help guys.

As for the bigger footprint of a cocktail; the spot I want to put it is behind a couch - right out in the middle of my living room. A pinball machine or upright vid would be out of place there as they are too tall. Also, this cocktail cabinet and the two chair will serve as an extra sitting/eating/drinking location for guests while watching football, etc. It will function as a piece of furniture.

Thanks for the joystick tip, I will check out the switchable ones. If I get a cabinet without a coin door, I'll be sure to put in an extra button as a credit switch.

Overall, I think the 60-in-1 JAMMA with vertical games is right for me. That would eliminate the need to the third control position.

John
 
Thanks for the help guys.

As for the bigger footprint of a cocktail; the spot I want to put it is behind a couch - right out in the middle of my living room. A pinball machine or upright vid would be out of place there as they are too tall. Also, this cocktail cabinet and the two chair will serve as an extra sitting/eating/drinking location for guests while watching football, etc. It will function as a piece of furniture.

Thanks for the joystick tip, I will check out the switchable ones. If I get a cabinet without a coin door, I'll be sure to put in an extra button as a credit switch.

Overall, I think the 60-in-1 JAMMA with vertical games is right for me. That would eliminate the need to the third control position.

John

The one thing I caution you about is: the cocktail cabinet will collect random items! It's a convenient flat surface, and you must be vigilant to prevent it becoming a dumping ground for random stuff, making it hard to play. I've got my Missile Command in my family room and I haven't been able to play in a while because it's got a load of various art projects from kids & wife on it.

I think you definitely want the 60-in-1 because it will give you a much better experience with little extra work.

If you can afford it, definitely go for the switchable (by the player!) 4/8 way joysticks. There are a number of games that were originally 4 way and just don't react well to an 8 way, and you'll want to play those.
 
If you already have the PC, I'd go with a mame setup over 60 in 1 . The sound is awful on the boards and creating a nice custom menu using mala and mame is well worth the small extra effort. If the sound and quality of emulation aren't important to you then a 60 in 1 is passable. I agree with not using and LCD they look like crap when viewed from an angle. Last mame I built, I just purchased an old 19" crt for 10 bucks and removed it from its frame. It turned out great. Also, for joysticks use the slik stik from ultimarc. They're 4 and 8 way switchable from the top of the panel.
 
The one thing I caution you about is: the cocktail cabinet will collect random items! It's a convenient flat surface, and you must be vigilant to prevent it becoming a dumping ground for random stuff, making it hard to play. I've got my Missile Command in my family room and I haven't been able to play in a while because it's got a load of various art projects from kids & wife on it.

Yeah, that is a great point. I have three pinball machines in what should be my dining room area. Years ago I actually had a dining room table and it did nothing but collect junk. Rule number one in my house is no junk on the pinball machines. That rule will extend to the cocktail also. I don't have any kids - just a girlfriend, so it shouldn't be too tough.

Thanks again for all the advice. I am finishing up on a restoration of an Elvira Scared Stiff pinball for a friend of mine. Once it is done and out of here, I will start seriously on the cocktail cabinet. That gives me two or three weeks to make up my mind on the details before I begin buying stuff.

John
 
Overall, I think the 60-in-1 JAMMA with vertical games is right for me. That would eliminate the need to the third control position.

Aesthetically it is the right choice. The third position would look stupid if not done properly.

Besides if you get a dptwiz or ou_flight cabinet this way it wouldn't require modification.
 
I scratch built my own MAME Cocktail years ago, birch plywood stained and finished, so I have some lessons learned, but to answer your questions:

1) Should I go with MAME or JAMMA 60-in-1...
I have an acer nettop (<200 bucks) hooked up to an LCD monitor and it works great. I run everything through Mala (and John's Arcade's theme) and it is absolutely plug and play. The 60in1s are great, but they don't play pandora and MP3s like the mame setup can (I have a little sub and some nice speakers in the cocktail and it's great.

2) Should I get the third control panel?....
No, it sucks sitting down to play that 3rd control panel and it makes it look stupid. (IMHO)

3) Does anyone have experience with this company and their Cabinet kits....
I've ordered stuff from them before, they are good. You can also find the plans online and do it yourself if you are on the cheap, Cocktails are pretty straightforward.

4) Does anyone have experience or comments on these monitors? I really want a flat screen. I am thinking about the 19 inch....
19 inch non widescreen. I bought a dell 19inch off of ebay and mounted it, works great, looks great.

5) I have a spare 22" wide LCD monitor...
Don't do it.... Sell it on CL and buy a 19" non wide on CL for cheaper


6) Do I need a coin door...
The coin door serves as an access point for the inside of the cabinet, the computer, speakers, etc. and the cabinet latches. You don't need one (I didn't install one on mine initially), but I wanted to make it very sturdy and the interior cab latches are required for that. The coin door looks cool, but you can also get a blank access door for cheaper.

7) What are the pros and cons of 8-way vs 4-way joysticks...
8-way for shmups, 4-way for everything else. I have an 8 and a 4 way installed (one on each side), but that's a little goofy. I personally would go 4-way and stick to the old school games.

8) Springing the extra $ for a tempered glass top instead of plexi seems like a good idea?
Yes absolutely, plexi is awful on these.

All in all, you'll end up spending 500-1000 bucks on doing one of these yourself, but they are a lot of fun to put together and if you have any questions I'll be happy to help.

-Wes
 
Ah....my favorite topic. I really need to spend more time over at BYOAC. :)


1) Should I go with MAME or JAMMA 60-in-1?

MAME. For the simple fact you're wiring it up yourself. Get to know the different Front Ends available (I use Mala and love it) and use one that supports screen flipping for cocktail games. Mala does this.


2) Should I get the third control panel?

No, not unless there's a horizontal classic you're DYING to play. Lots more work for little reward. Besides, you COULD always play a horizontal game on the vertical monitor with MAME if you really want to. It'll be tiny, but you COULD.

3) Does anyone have experience with this company and their Cabinet kits?

I have not, but for that kind of money I'd see if DPtwiz can help you. You can also get your own cab plans for free from Mike's Aracde. http://www.mikesarcade.com/arcade/cabplans.html

4) Does anyone have experience or comments on these monitors?

Get a 4:3 19" monitor. 20" or 21" would be better, but are more expensive. 19" will be replaceable and damn near disposable if you mount it right. LCD is fine for what you want. Most of the purists who tell you that you need to use an arcade CRT monitor are a bit fanatical, IMHO. Sure, you could use a 19" CRT monitor (if you can FIND one) and a compatible video card, but that's a lot of work to get an image that is a 7 to be a 10. And the CRT monitor will require more space, more maintenance, more adjustments, and more money.

I won't be able to access the on/off switch or front panel buttons.

Use a smart strip power inside the cabinet. When the strip senses that the CPU has been turned on, it will power on the monitor, speakers, etc. http://amzn.com/B000P1QJXQ

6) Do I need a coin door?

Yes. Would you build a pinball machine without one?

7) What are the pros and cons of 8-way vs 4-way joysticks?

For MAME, the best joystick IMHO is the Ultimarc Ultrastik 360. Get the medium springs to go with it. http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html

A distant runner up would be the Ultimarc Mag Stick, which is a 4/8 way joystick that is switchable without having to reach in. It uses a unique mechanism to assist in rotating the resistor plate on the bottom of the joystick. But for this feature you sacrifice a little bit of room in the throw of the joystick. It has a very short throw. But it's great for arcade use, though, since it's not USB based, it uses microswitches.



8) Springing the extra $ for a tempered glass?

Yes. There's really no other way.
 
Wow! Thanks for the responses guys. You've made me reconsider on the idea of MAME. I have been leaning towards this new ArcadeSD board. It's a little pricey, but really cool.

On the other hand I have more than one extra PC that I could use for MAME. Someone just gave me a nice P4 Dell today that only needs a new hard disk.

As for the third control panel, I really appreciate the advice. Most of the games I like are the verticals. I could always play some horizontals with the screen a little smaller. Not having the third panel would save a lot of money and time. (I was kind of wanting to play two player Joust and some Robotron, so there is slim chance...)

As for the monitor, I am not a purist. In fact, I hope to never have a CRT in my house again, so it will be an LCD. I haven't found one that looks better for the task than the 4:3 19" LCD I posted. It has a very wide viewing angle and is meant for panel mounting.

For the cabinet, I just haven't found any that matches the bang for the buck of Arcade Depot. For around $340 delivered I get a real wood kit that is stained and sealed with T-molding or veneer installed.
http://www.arcadedepot.com/HTML/kits.html

Coin door... I still don't see any need. The hole is actually optional on the Arcade Depot kit. Once again I am not a purist. This is going to be in the middle of my living room, so the more wood and less machinery the better.

The Ultimarc Ultrastik 360 looks really cool.

Thanks again guys.

John


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The more I read, the more I appreciate the suggestions to go with MAME and use the Ultrastik 360. Thanks again! I think I'd rather spend the money on the joysticks and make use of all the free PC components I have to chose from rather than go the multi JAMMA route.

I found this article about building a MAME machine. As soon as I saw the picture of the furniture quality cocktail cabinet with no arcade artwork, I realized that was exactly what I have been picturing in my mind. Then I noticed that the cabinet was the same kit I have been looking at from Arcade Depot!

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_build_kickass_mame_arcade_cabinet_old_pc?page=0,0

I'm still considering a third control panel like the one in the picture. That would mean I'd have to invest in four of the Ultrasticks, but that would still be cheaper than the ArcadeSD board alone if I went the JAMMA route.

John
 
I'm more than happy to assist in whatever you need in setting up your rig.

Love that article! If I ever set myself up with a cocktail MAME rig, that'd be the direction I'd go.
 
I'm more than happy to assist in whatever you need in setting up your rig.

Love that article! If I ever set myself up with a cocktail MAME rig, that'd be the direction I'd go.

Thanks for the assistance! Click on the picture of the cocktail cabinet on that first page and it expands nice and big.

Unfortunately I just got a letter today from my dental insurance denying coverage from a recent implant that I got. Bottom line is I am $1500 poorer than I was when I woke up this morning. This might delay this project some, but not for long. ;-) I'll dispute the claim tomorrow.

John
 
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