Question on Sega Model 2 video output, specifically Virtual On...

MasterFygar

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Question on Sega Model 2 video output, specifically Virtual On...

Hey guys, I've had this idea for a long time now and although I doubt it is possible I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask...

What I would like to do is run a cable through the back of a Sega Model 2 Virtual On cab, each side actually, into two external monitors that I can attach to the ceiling to allow spectators to easily see how the battle is going during tourneys from both cabs (as well as record straight from those monitors). What I'm really thinking "external monitor" wise are a couple of cheap TVs, but I don't know if that's even possible. I know it is on Sega NAOMI Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram cabinets from this photo:
japan_0135.jpg

But I guess what I need to know is if there's any way to do it using the wiring from an original Model 2 Virtual On cab to connect to a video signal that can either be relayed to another arcade monitor or any sort of television. Both sides work fine and there ARE panels on the back to route wiring out of. I know I can get wiring in and out, the question is what wiring and if there is even any way currently technologically to do so.

http://www.sauservice.com/manuals/Virtual On Folder/VOhtml/VO0.html is the schematic and manual if you aren't familiar with the wiring, I am but I have no clue how to relay any video footage through. Audio would be great too actually, but I doubt even more that that would be possible than that video would, heheh :D My only concern is that since Naomi is a far more universal arcade system than Model 2, it may not work... but if it does it would be sweet, and I make this thread on the off hope that it is.


Thanks in advance for keeping the dreams of this mecha fanboy alive!
 
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you know, I read an article on how to do this in Randy Fromm's Big Blue Book...

it was about a game room that wanted to have action from video games up on large TV monitors throughout. I think it was like a 3x3 square picture thing too, lol.

if you give me a chance later when I get home, I can maybe scan the pages for you. that won't be for another 7 hours or so though.

there's certainly a way to do it, but if I recall there's some involvement with like radio shack project boards and resistors and other various parts. I can't even remember how they got the RGB signal to feed into it.
 
Wow... that's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Take your time, I'd love to have that whenever. It's fine if it's complicated- I knew it couldn't be easy. Thanks again for your time :D
 
I can't access my scanner (top shelf of my closet, and I can't access it with this abdominal pull I have.. gfd), but I found the article. sounds like a fun project.

calls for "six-conductor, twisted-pair", that's just like RJ25 phone cord I think, otherwise if you have an abundance of CAT5 wire laying around I'm sure it could do the same thing.

I'm trying to think of some applications in our arcade that could utilize such a monster LOL

I almost think this "distribution amplifier" circuitry is roughly the same thing as one of those JAMMA -> NTSC adapters. perhaps JROK James would be the guy to talk to about doing this.

EDIT: out of respect to Mr. Fromm I won't post any of the pages from the book, but if I can I'll scan the amp circuit, since Ed Keenan of Midway made that. :)
 
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If you were to split the signal and have the split signal going into an RGBS to S-Video you should be able to easily accomplish this. Once you convert the signal to S-Video you can hook it up to a DVD recorder and record as well as display it on a television.
 
few notes, splitting the signal and having the wire travel over long distance isn't a problem. if you use that RJ25 wiring, the first pair will be your red and green, next pair will be the blue and sync, and one of the remaining wire pairs is the ground. the shields on the wires must not be used, otherwise it will just ground out the signal and you'll get nothing on the TV end.

the reason for the circuit is because your remote monitor would look fine, but once you hook the game back up to its monitor, the signal will have interference and have ghosting in the image, so the circuit isolates the two signals.

the circuit board doesn't specify what output it's got, but I was leaning towards it being S-video, the part I don't get is do you mount the circuit inside the cab (cause the 2 outputs come off it) and crimp RCA-like connectors on the phone wire and adapt that into an S-video connector or what..?

any takers? (besides R3LL1K, who IMO has a fine idea)
 
Thanks for all your info, guys, I think I'm probably going to try R3LL1K's method first. But now I'm confused and I have another question, slightly related...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxUeLJC0weg

This video has an example of a Japanese arcade using a Model 2 machine, same model as mine, to broadcast video on an external monitor... but in this case, instead of simply duplicating the image on either side of the cabinet, it's using a special spectator viewpoint, along the lines of Virtua Racer's live view kit! The method shown in the video is really what I'm after and would love to have, as not only does it give a special dramatic viewpoint, but also saves me from hooking up two separate TVs/monitors.

The problem- how are they doing it!?

I know there is a mode to watch replays in the PS2 port of Virtual On, but I can confirm from experience and the screens shown in the footage that is from a machine... plus, the video is from a tourney in 1997, when the PS2 was not yet out, let alone the port. Also, it flashes "LIVE" at the bottom, so... it's not a replay, that's for certain. What I'm wondering is... does anybody have any clue how this is possible?

In the background you can see a similar monitor set up to another cab, so it wasn't a one time setup. What I'm wondering is if the diagrams indicate any special output line on the machine that broadcasts this live feed or if there was a "Live View" kit for Virtual On, much like Virtua Racing, that functioned with a separate board made to link with one or the other side of the cabinet to broadcast the footage. I am not aware of such a kit and have done extensive research on the subject, but hey, I didn't know about the Virtua Racing kit until LordAuric mentioned it either.

So what I'm wondering is... should I look for some hidden output on my machine, scour Japanese auction sites looking for some low-profile release kit, or just assume that there's some special cabinet that was made for tournaments, give up on Live mode and follow through with attempting R3LL1K or mecha187's methods for a normal 2-monitor broadcast setup?
 
for what it's worth, we have a Suzuka 8 Hours 2 that according to the manual had an optional spectator monitor attachment. I think that plugged into the link board. what displayed on this monitor I can't remember off hand, but it doesn't sound too far-fetched for Virtual On to have some sort of spectator monitor.

I'll hunt around in the manual for it to see if such a feature exists.

EDIT: not seeing anything like that in here :/ http://www.sauservice.com/manuals/Virtual On Folder/VOhtml/VO0.html
 
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If you have access to the manual that would be a good start. I would imagine the board would support this or there would be an add on accessory that displays the spectator view.
 
Thanks Mecha187, good to know it wasn't just Virtua Racing.

And R3LL1K, I have the American manual in its entirety, and nothing is mentioned of a spectator mode. I've been through the internal settings and there's nothing for viewpoints or anything, and the flyer is silent on it as well. I haven't been able to find the Japanese manual to check, though.
 
Several of Sega's games have the Live Vision capability. I don't think VO had it, but you can check it easily by going into the test menu and cycling through the link settings. If it is capable, there will be a setting labeled "Live" or "Special" or anything other than "Slave" or "Master".

The way Sega implemented the live view in the games I've seen it on was by using a seperate boardset driving a monitor.
 
I believe this topic requires a good bump. I've been asking myself the same question because I'd love to hold a tournament with my Virtual On Cabs.

I flicked around in the Test menu on the Japanese rom on the Model 2 Emu by nebula to see if there was an option in the linking mode. Only "no link", "master," or "slave" options. So that was a no go.

I have the American version, wooden cabinets, and I know for sure there isn't any special linking mode as well. I would really love to find something on this, the Live View would be better than the TVs just grabbing the original signal from the cabinet's BD units.

And this talk of how to setup a specialized amp or contraption to make sure the image does not Ghost on the cabby monitor...............how would I go about doing this? Any possible schematics that someone can draw up of what ya'll were talking about from that book?
 
Ok just an update here on the topic. From what I researched online is that some of the Model 2 games actually have a setting for the Live View thing, its called Relay Mode, and will be available when there is an extra unit plugged in under the link settings.

So in essence you would like lets say 2x Sega Rally Championship/Pro Drivin' cabinets, and then a 3rd BD unit with the same ROMs, you would link the 3 together, set the first cabinet to master, the second cabinet to slave, and the 3rd BD unit to Relay. And there using the video output of the 3rd BD unit you would have a Live View Monitor.

At this time I do not know if Virtual On supports the Relay function, but heres a list of games that do.

-Manx TT Superbike
-Motor Raid
-Sega Rally Championship/Pro Drivin'
-Sega Touring Car Championship

I gathered this from Nebula's user guide for the Model 2 Emulator, which seems to be the only thing on the internet talking about it. But most of the games they've dumped so far is still unlinkable because there is something wrong with the coding which may have a lot to do with the different communication boards used in each Model 2 version.

I wish I had a 3rd BD unit of Virtual on to test it, but I would still need a whole power rig and monitor to try it. Though there is one going for $150 with the harness on Ebay!
 
I know I'm digging this topic out of the grave, but I wanted to give some people a heads up.

A few months back I had purchased a spare working board set for my Virtual On cabs, so I had a tri-sync monitor laying around so I wanted to try syncing all 3 together and see if you could have a unit setup as a spectator or relay as some games say.

When the units are plugged in together there is no spectator/relay option in the networking settings. I also tried to setup one as a master, and the other 2 as slaves. An error report will appear on screen upon startup saying "Illegal : 3 Nodes"

The units will simply not pass the bootup screen if there are 3 wired together via the fiber optic cable. (I linked them like you would setup a Daytona cabinets)
 
I'm bumping this old thread because MasterFygar mentioned this to me and now I'm intrigued...

Given what I know about hardware... if the "Live Monitor" shows a different perspective from any of the individual players then it needs it's own 3D graphics processor to render the new perspective.

With this I'd would assume that you'd need a whole extra PCB for the Live monitor...

The only thing I've been able to confirm is that the live monitor connects via Optical cables as if it was an extra linked machine... which confirms this assumption.

It's possible that the Live monitor used special Roms designed to both identify itself as a live monitor unit with programming to determine what to show...


As for what you could use for a monitor... The model 2 hardware outputs a Medium Resolution signal, so you'd need a Med Res Monitor... so you wouldn't be able to use a PC monitor unless you could find a med-res to VGA adapter of some sort. I've heard (though this could be wrong) that the there is a jumper or dip-switch somewhere to output Standard Res from Model 2 hardware... which would let you use many easily available Arcade monitors or open the door to a plethora of converters for TVs or PC monitors.

-----------------

If anyone else has any knowledge of this I'd be interested... worst case I'd be willing to bet Ken at http://irepairsega.com/ would be able to lend additional insight.
 
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A little more searching I found another post by MasterFygar on this, figured I'd post it here for completeness...
http://www.oratan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=350

Interesting theory that the "Live monitor" option under game-assignment might not be available UNTIL a 3rd unit is attached... based on rikitheshadow's information this might only be possible on the Japanese version.
 
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Thanks for the info, TS, and for the bump. I'm definitely still curious about all this, and I'll try contacting Ken about it.

Question--I know Dolphin Model 2 emulator allows you to link PCBs via emulation (basically telling the game it's connected to the other instances of the program running simultaneously as if it were connected via optical cables). I haven't been able to get Dolphin to run on this computer, but could someone perhaps test linking 3 units to one another this way? Plausible? Possible?
 
I've had no joy getting any 3D based emulators running on my computer... all I've got is a laptop with integrated graphics so it's pretty crappy when it comes to that stuff.

it would be a good way to test it out without spending the money on another PCB and another PSU and two more optical cables just to see if it works.
 
I'm in the exact same predicament here, but it definitely seems like the next logical step. Anyone willing/able to try it out?
 
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