Question for Retailers who are familiar with Star Wars

bheineck

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
5,364
Reaction score
48
Location
Sellersville, Pennsylvania
Question for Retailers who are familiar with Star Wars

Hi all. For your consideration. Any helpful opinion is appreciated: I recently finalized the retail purchase of a Star Wars vector that I have paid on for the last year and took delivery of a week ago. After playing it for a week I have the issues listed below with the quality of the machine, that I paid retail for and honestly expected more.

I have not opened up the game since purchase and I am wondering what the expert's thoughts are of me requesting these issues be corrected. I have never purchased retail before and if this doesn't go well will likely never do it again if this is what I should expect. I did see a couple of things listed below when I picked up the game and I guess I should have brought them up on the spot, but wasn't quite sure what to say as I am not very knowledgeable of these things. Not to mention the game was already paid for so I had little to bargain with. I still have little to bargain with except customer satisfaction. Anyway here goes:

1) Dead Red is still on the HV board thought the game is working. Isn't it common repair knowledge that this should always be replaced, especially if you are selling at retail with a warranty of sorts?

2) Power cord is taped up in at least 3 spots. (Unsure what is under the tape)

3) Specifically stated that I expected an Amp tube with no burn holes more than once. When death star explodes can see strange light lines in the center coming out of the same spot. (Should I presume this is a hole?)

4) Control panel overlay has a large crack at the bend.

5) New translight was installed, but is not sticking properly to the surface and therefore has begun to crack where there is no solid surface behind it.

6) Cabinet touch up is hardly what I expected for professional retail work, but not as big of an issue in my mind as the others. However the bottom edges don't look like they were touched up at all, especially in the front.

To conclude the game seems to play well (except for the pesky death star explosion lines in the center I mentioned), but I am not all that familiar with the game play.

Thanks for your help.
 
Have you contacted the place you bought it from to see if they can work with you on any of the issues?

You were close enough to pick the game up, but not play it before you bought it?

I don't know of the monitor issues you describe, but the game is over 30 years old, there are bound to be some issues. The cord is easily replaced. Star Wars Art is available.

Did you get pics or a video before buying this? Was it local? Who did you get it from?

Not trying to slam you but if I were paying for something (especially what you call "retail") I would make sure my bases were covered, especially if I were close enought o pick it u in person.

Hope you can get the stuff worked out, it is a great game.

Chris
 
Last edited:
1) Dead Red is still on the HV board thought the game is working. Isn't it common repair knowledge that this should always be replaced, especially if you are selling at retail with a warranty of sorts?
Well, when the flyback craps out after a couple hours of play, they're going to repair it, right? How long is the warranty? Did they at the very least do the other required reliability mods to it, like replacing the zero ohm resistors with wire? Can you tell if it's been capped?

While it's theoretically possible to have a good one, and I guess if it still works it's a good one, but I've personally never seen a good red flyback. I personally wouldn't trust it as far as I can throw it. Which, admittedly, should be pretty far, since it's about the size of a baseball, but, still, the statement would be valid.

Replacement flybacks are cheap now, and when it goes, you can just replace it (and the BU406D it'll fry when it goes), even if it's out of warranty.

2) Power cord is taped up in at least 3 spots. (Unsure what is under the tape)

Completely unacceptable if they're patching damaged insulation with tape and selling retail. In my mind anyway. It's like buying a certified pre-owned car from the dealer, only to find that the exhaust is patched with beer cans and worm clamps. A new power cord costs all of ten bucks and takes minutes to install.

3) Specifically stated that I expected an Amp tube with no burn holes more than once. When death star explodes can see strange light lines in the center coming out of the same spot. (Should I presume this is a hole?)

The "Amp burn hole" will look like a completely dead spot in the center. No light at all. You can also see little weird fringing around it. Sounds like the screen voltage is up a bit too far and you're seeing the retrace during the flashing. Hard to tell from the description, I'd have to see it.

4) Control panel overlay has a large crack at the bend.
Well, it is a 30 year old game. Was this a repro overlay, or the original one?

5) New translight was installed, but is not sticking properly to the surface and therefore has begun to crack where there is no solid surface behind it.

6) Cabinet touch up is hardly what I expected for professional retail work, but not as big of an issue in my mind as the others. However the bottom edges don't look like they were touched up at all, especially in the front.

Did you buy this game as "professionally restored" or just "working condition"? Big difference - if the game was restored, then it shouldn't have the cabinet flaws. Otherwise, well, I mean, it is a 30 year old game...

The power cord thing seems fishy though. I mean, it's so cheap and easy to fix. I suppose if it's only minor scuffing they're taping up, it's no big deal, but if it's chewed all the way down to the inner wires, then they should have replaced it for safety. Feel the tape areas, see if they feel lumpy like there's lots of damage it's hiding. I've seen some really horrible power cords, so I assume the worst most times. It could very well be nothing, and they're just protecting areas where the outer jacket got slightly abraded.

Post some pictures of the game - inside and out. Would like to see what the electronics on a "retail" game look like - we'll be able to tell by looking at the monitor boards if it's been capped, or if the zero ohm resistors have been fixed.

-Ian
 
Retail doesn't usually mean restored. I've seen some retail games that would need to get a complete overhaul before I would put them in my gameroom. As long as the game is working and they fix it during the warranty period, you'll be hard pressed to get them to do more.
 
Retail doesn't usually mean restored.

This I understand, but I certainly thought it would look a bit more well done.

As long as the game is working and they fix it during the warranty period, you'll be hard pressed to get them to do more.

That begs the question, why buy retail? Only, because they would fix it if it breaks then?
 
I hope you are willing to learn to repair this game yourself once the warranty runs out. It will happen eventually. I don't know what you paid for "retail"..but I paid 300 for mine a couple years ago and have only capped the monitor and done the other mods to make it a more solid running game. Sounds to me like your seller picked up a Star Wars in a large lot of games..dusted it off..did minimal cosmetic and almost no preventative maintenance or even a thorough check of the boards and monitor chasis before flipping it for a nice profit.
 
Have you contacted the place you bought it from to see if they can work with you on any of the issues?

You were close enough to pick the game up, but not play it before you bought it?

I don't know of the monitor issues you describe, but the game is over 30 years old, there are bound to be some issues. The cord is easily replaced. Star Wars Art is available.

Did you get pics or a video before buying this? Was it local? Who did you get it from?

Not trying to slam you but if I were paying for something (especially what you call "retail") I would make sure my bases were covered, especially if I were close enought o pick it u in person.

Hope you can get the stuff worked out, it is a great game.

Chris

I have not contacted them yet. I will not divulge the name as that is not my purpose here. I wanted to see first if I have valid issues or if this is what I should expect from retail before I talk to them. This is my first experience buying this way. I did play it before I took it home. It played fine from what I saw, but I never got to explode the death star. Yep, I'm that bad at it. Better after a week though. :D

I do not doubt they will fix the game mechanically if it fails under the warranty, which has quite a ways to go yet. I didn't think the cord is a big deal for me to replace either, but thought for sure a retail game would not have one so beat up. Maybe I'm wrong. I know many places I can get great parts to do a full restore and at some point, I will likely do a full restore, because I think the game is that great of a classic. For now I am trying to determine if I should be asking for any fixes and if my expectations of buying reatail were too high. Obviously all retailers are different so I am looking for generally speaking, what should be expected.

At the point I went to pick up the game, the money had already been in their hands and checks have been cashed for a year so I didn't feel I had the same leverage as say puting down a small deposit and paying the main balance upon pickup.
 
I hope you are willing to learn to repair this game yourself once the warranty runs out. It will happen eventually. I don't know what you paid for "retail"..but I paid 300 for mine a couple years ago and have only capped the monitor and done the other mods to make it a more solid running game. Sounds to me like your seller picked up a Star Wars in a large lot of games..dusted it off..did minimal cosmetic and almost no preventative maintenance or even a thorough check of the boards and monitor chasis before flipping it for a nice profit.

Agreed on the repair part. The warranty period is fairly long and I entered into the purchase contract as I was just getting into the hobby just over a year ago and had absolutely no familiarity with the game parts. I kind of feel as though I received a shopped machine, but paid a full retail price. I think I said the terminology correctly, but the jury is still out as I am not knowledgeable enough on what to expect for retail over shopped.
 
I work for a retail place, so I'll chime in here.

Retail does NOT equal professional. It just means they have a storefront (usually), offer warranties (mostly), and usually have higher prices because they are considered more "reliable" to contact than home-garage mechanics.

Based on what you mentioned you found "wrong", I'd have to look at it from a certain standpoint:

1) While it's always best to rebuild monitors before selling games - for no other reason than to make sure you don't have to do a warranty call 2 months later - I've found not every shop does so (we do). And even if caps are done, flybacks aren't always replaced if the monitor is working (although I replace any of the "failure" ones that are recommended during a rebuild).

2) The line cord should have been replaced. It's a cheap and easy fix.

3) While you may have mentioned you wanted an Amp tube with no "holes", it's not the easiest thing to find. In fact, I've been doing this for almost 9 years and only seen ONE Amp tube ever. How many thousands of dollars were you willing to spend to get a burn-free Amplifone tube? The fact that you got one at all and it works should be enough, and the dark glass over the monitor hides anything except for on those big explosions.

4-6) Did you specifically ask for a fully restored game? A crack in a CPO is often cause for not replacing it unless it is ripped enough to show bare metal over a significant portion of the control panel. The reasoning is that it is better to leave it "original" than to spend a bunch of time and money ripping off a CPO due to a minor crack.


And before anyone says, "Well, they charged $2000 for a Star Wars, so they should have..." I understand retail prices are a lot higher than what is normally seen, but when you factor in rent, insurance, utilities, employee payroll, etc, the profit isn't much more than what Joe Blow gets selling on Craigslist.

BUT - you really need to discuss these things with your retailer. He should at the very least put a new line cord on at no charge, and maybe do the monitor upgrade (although he may ask you to pay for the flyback). The other things probably would have made the game a lot more expensive to you, and you should see what they say about it...
 
Agreed on the repair part. The warranty period is fairly long and I entered into the purchase contract as I was just getting into the hobby just over a year ago and had absolutely no familiarity with the game parts. I kind of feel as though I received a shopped machine, but paid a full retail price. I think I said the terminology correctly, but the jury is still out as I am not knowledgeable enough on what to expect for retail over shopped.

Again, you don't seem to know what "retail" means. "Retail" just means you bought it from a business that sells games. A "shopped" game has had everything gone through mechanically and electrically to make sure it works perfectly (not necessarily upgraded), and is usually cleaned up pretty good. It doesn't mean "restored". It usually means "refurbished" to some people.

Again - not sure what you paid, but if you had gotten it in the shape you wanted, you probably would've paid quite a bit more than you did...
 
Well, when the flyback craps out after a couple hours of play, they're going to repair it, right? How long is the warranty? Did they at the very least do the other required reliability mods to it, like replacing the zero ohm resistors with wire? Can you tell if it's been capped?

While it's theoretically possible to have a good one, and I guess if it still works it's a good one, but I've personally never seen a good red flyback. I personally wouldn't trust it as far as I can throw it. Which, admittedly, should be pretty far, since it's about the size of a baseball, but, still, the statement would be valid.

Replacement flybacks are cheap now, and when it goes, you can just replace it (and the BU406D it'll fry when it goes), even if it's out of warranty.

Yes they will repair the game if it fails under warranty, which is quite lengthy. That is part of the reason I went this route while knowing far less than I know today. Seems impossible I know. :D


Completely unacceptable if they're patching damaged insulation with tape and selling retail. In my mind anyway. It's like buying a certified pre-owned car from the dealer, only to find that the exhaust is patched with beer cans and worm clamps. A new power cord costs all of ten bucks and takes minutes to install.

This is kind of how I felt too, but didn't pull the tape off as of yet to know exactly what was hiding under it. I did not notice this at pickup.


The "Amp burn hole" will look like a completely dead spot in the center. No light at all. You can also see little weird fringing around it. Sounds like the screen voltage is up a bit too far and you're seeing the retrace during the flashing. Hard to tell from the description, I'd have to see it.

It should be easy enough to remove the glass and check for sure. How do you load videos up here? I could do that too I guess. Are the CP clamps easy enough to get to through the coin door?

Well, it is a 30 year old game. Was this a repro overlay, or the original one?

To be honest that is kind of how I rationalized it on pickup, though I definitely was disappointed. I think it is likely original. After the list grew, I added it, but likely won't press this one.

Did you buy this game as "professionally restored" or just "working condition"? Big difference - if the game was restored, then it shouldn't have the cabinet flaws. Otherwise, well, I mean, it is a 30 year old game...

Definitely not professionally restored. I did not expect that level either. I purchased new side art near the beginning of making payments. I knew brand new art wasn't going to be installed, but instead would be touched up. I asked if they would install the new art instead of touching it up and they said it was more work that it was worth and they would not do it, because repro stuff peels off. I told them it was quality art from Phoeix Arcade, but that didn't change their minds. I did expect a decent touch up job. When I first saw it, it looked sort of decent, but when I looked up close at home, I think the scratches on the side had permanent marker used or something similar. Maybe that's the way black is touched up generally? I do think that if you are installing any new art, like the translite, they should be responsible enought to make sure the surface underneath is adequate for proper adhesion and it certainly isn't. I noticed this part when I noticed the translite had cracked.

The power cord thing seems fishy though. I mean, it's so cheap and easy to fix. I suppose if it's only minor scuffing they're taping up, it's no big deal, but if it's chewed all the way down to the inner wires, then they should have replaced it for safety. Feel the tape areas, see if they feel lumpy like there's lots of damage it's hiding. I've seen some really horrible power cords, so I assume the worst most times. It could very well be nothing, and they're just protecting areas where the outer jacket got slightly abraded.

Post some pictures of the game - inside and out. Would like to see what the electronics on a "retail" game look like - we'll be able to tell by looking at the monitor boards if it's been capped, or if the zero ohm resistors have been fixed.

Will try to post some pics tonight. Hearing the feedback so far I think my biggest concerns are 1) if there is a hole or not in the Amp tube 2) non sticking and cracked translight. If I pull the tape off and find significant injury to the cord, it's obviously not a big concern to repair it, but would certainly stick in my craw! I did pay good money for this game. I have not seen one sell near what I paid, but this is KLOV. :D
 
I work for a retail place, so I'll chime in here.

Retail does NOT equal professional. It just means they have a storefront (usually), offer warranties (mostly), and usually have higher prices because they are considered more "reliable" to contact than home-garage mechanics.

Based on what you mentioned you found "wrong", I'd have to look at it from a certain standpoint:

1) While it's always best to rebuild monitors before selling games - for no other reason than to make sure you don't have to do a warranty call 2 months later - I've found not every shop does so (we do). And even if caps are done, flybacks aren't always replaced if the monitor is working (although I replace any of the "failure" ones that are recommended during a rebuild).

2) The line cord should have been replaced. It's a cheap and easy fix.

3) While you may have mentioned you wanted an Amp tube with no "holes", it's not the easiest thing to find. In fact, I've been doing this for almost 9 years and only seen ONE Amp tube ever. How many thousands of dollars were you willing to spend to get a burn-free Amplifone tube? The fact that you got one at all and it works should be enough, and the dark glass over the monitor hides anything except for on those big explosions.

4-6) Did you specifically ask for a fully restored game? A crack in a CPO is often cause for not replacing it unless it is ripped enough to show bare metal over a significant portion of the control panel. The reasoning is that it is better to leave it "original" than to spend a bunch of time and money ripping off a CPO due to a minor crack.


And before anyone says, "Well, they charged $2000 for a Star Wars, so they should have..." I understand retail prices are a lot higher than what is normally seen, but when you factor in rent, insurance, utilities, employee payroll, etc, the profit isn't much more than what Joe Blow gets selling on Craigslist.

BUT - you really need to discuss these things with your retailer. He should at the very least put a new line cord on at no charge, and maybe do the monitor upgrade (although he may ask you to pay for the flyback). The other things probably would have made the game a lot more expensive to you, and you should see what they say about it...

Thanks. This is helpful insight. My only purpose here is to guage what I should reasonably ask them to correct. And to help me understand what should be expected.
 
It should be easy enough to remove the glass and check for sure. How do you load videos up here? I could do that too I guess. Are the CP clamps easy enough to get to through the coin door?

Not clamps, bolts. There are some nuts you have to undo to flip the panel down. You can get to them through the coin door, but it's kind of a pain. Then there are the allen head screws you have to remove to pull the plastic shroud out.

You shouldn't even have to do that though - open the coin door and flip the test switch. Cycle through the test screens until you get to "Raster Test" - it displays a solid block of lines on the screen. The burn hole should be very obvious.

-Ian
 
Again, you don't seem to know what "retail" means. "Retail" just means you bought it from a business that sells games. A "shopped" game has had everything gone through mechanically and electrically to make sure it works perfectly (not necessarily upgraded), and is usually cleaned up pretty good. It doesn't mean "restored". It usually means "refurbished" to some people.

Again - not sure what you paid, but if you had gotten it in the shape you wanted, you probably would've paid quite a bit more than you did...

You would be correct. I don't completely understand "retail" as it applies to arcade games, hence my post. I guess you are saying there is no general expecation for games sold at retail. I have seen places sell for one price and then offer what they called "shopped" versions of the same game for less. I did not buy a so called "shopped" game. They do use phrases such as "extensively reconditioned", "assure quality", "Best of the Best", and "Top Condition". Obviously that isn't very specific.

I know that retail doesn't really say anything about condition, because retail is really just a channel of sales. You can sell POS games at "retail" I suppose, but generally I am thinking of retail like a dealership. They sell used cars as well at retail dealerships, but there is a certain standard expected. They don't look brand new, but pretty nice! you don't expect the same condition of a used car at a dealership as you do at a general used car dealer.

Like I said I only want to go back and approach them with what seems reasonable. I did not expect a completely restored and pristine game like Spyridon does. ;)
 
Last edited:
Not clamps, bolts. There are some nuts you have to undo to flip the panel down. You can get to them through the coin door, but it's kind of a pain. Then there are the allen head screws you have to remove to pull the plastic shroud out.

You shouldn't even have to do that though - open the coin door and flip the test switch. Cycle through the test screens until you get to "Raster Test" - it displays a solid block of lines on the screen. The burn hole should be very obvious.

-Ian

Great. That is quite helpful! I'll try that tonight. Aparently also I should not expect a no-hole Amp tube, but if that was the case I would expect the guy who continued to take payments after I mentioned I expected it to say that, if that were the case. Similar to the way he said no to installing the new side art.
 
I run a repair shop, but we will also do sales. As already mentioned......"retail" means a lot of different things to different people. Not to be nosy, but my opinion on this would vary, depending on how much you paid. When I sell a game, the electronics are gone through.....any suspect connectors are replaced.....all monitors are given cap kits, etc. I warranty my stuff too.

Amplifone high voltage units are (now) very inexpensive, I would replace a red one before selling it.

I don't think you have a hole in your monitor's tube.....it sounds like you're seeing retrace lines. The brightness is turned up too high.

Regarding the cosmetics....I give the customer options. Me and the customer will go over various things I can do and what the additional expensive will be. I've learned some customers do not care about a cracking at the bend marquee.....while other's do. Now, if my customer tells me they want it to look as new as possible.....all the cosmetic issues you're having would have been addressed before the sale (and you would have been charged accordingly.

For the record, it sounds like you have a nice/average Stars Wars. I would have replaced the high voltage unit and did a cap kit (I would have also adjusted the monitor properly). I would have sold it for $1000.

Edward
 
I run a repair shop, but we will also do sales. As already mentioned......"retail" means a lot of different things to different people. Not to be nosy, but my opinion on this would vary, depending on how much you paid. When I sell a game, the electronics are gone through.....any suspect connectors are replaced.....all monitors are given cap kits, etc. I warranty my stuff too.

Amplifone high voltage units are (now) very inexpensive, I would replace a red one before selling it.

I don't think you have a hole in your monitor's tube.....it sounds like you're seeing retrace lines. The brightness is turned up too high.

Regarding the cosmetics....I give the customer options. Me and the customer will go over various things I can do and what the additional expensive will be. I've learned some customers do not care about a cracking at the bend marquee.....while other's do. Now, if my customer tells me they want it to look as new as possible.....all the cosmetic issues you're having would have been addressed before the sale (and you would have been charged accordingly.

For the record, it sounds like you have a nice/average Stars Wars. I would have replaced the high voltage unit and did a cap kit (I would have also adjusted the monitor properly). I would have sold it for $1000.

Edward

Thanks. Very helpful. Once I take and post pics, I'll post the price I paid which is well above that. :cool: Again it was just as I started collecting and I knew I paid a premium price, but figured I would get a pretty darn nice machine. Not perfect for sure, but certainly not a red flyback and taped up cord. I'd be curious what y'all think of the electronics work. I am not familiar enough with them though somewhere I have a rebuilt set from ArcRevival. One of the other things I said I expected was clean Amp chasis boards with no burns, while I didn't see any at first glance in the back of cab, I have not removed them to look on the solder side. I'll try the brightness to see if it gets rid of the lines.
 
There were three taped spots on the power cord. I decided to untape just the bulkiest looking one. Still like all have said this is an easy fix. I think I'll just unplug it and take it to them for a replacement. I still can't believe it was left on the machine like this though. Possibly they just forgot or communication error between different techs. Still I would think the top dog would want to put his stamp of approval on each machine as it goes out the door. Sort of like a final inspection approval.
 

Attachments

  • Wire 1.jpg
    Wire 1.jpg
    95 KB · Views: 29
  • Wire 2.jpg
    Wire 2.jpg
    89.5 KB · Views: 27
I think I am feeling better about the lines I saw and thoughts of a hole in the Amp tube. Not completely convinced yet, but I played with the brightness and I think it was just a bit too high as suggested. Not sure where the optimum brightness is, but I played a few games and no longer saw the lines. When the death star explodes, is it normal to see a small bright white sort of dot in the very center?

Further it was suggested to open the coin door and throw the test switch to check the screen. I did that and it took me to an accounting screen, but it said use aux coin button to cycle through. For the life of me I could not find it. Where would this button be? I attached a couple picks of test switch area.

Attached a couple screen shots too.
 

Attachments

  • Counter 1.jpg
    Counter 1.jpg
    90.3 KB · Views: 22
  • Counter 2.jpg
    Counter 2.jpg
    95 KB · Views: 19
  • Screen 1.jpg
    Screen 1.jpg
    87 KB · Views: 25
  • Screen 2.jpg
    Screen 2.jpg
    82 KB · Views: 23
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom