Question for multigame kit makers

ledzep

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I don't know about how multigame kits are made or designed but I tried searching and couldn't find an answer so I thought I'd ask directly.

Is it possible to make a multigame kit for the Atari Football/Baseball/Soccer line of arcade games? Are the boards and control panels even close? I am assuming that all of them using trackballs and using black & white monitors means that it wouldn't be too hard to make one of them (especially a 4-player Football or Soccer) play all of them. I thought I read that there's a 2-player mode for Soccer as well so that might work with the normal 2-player Football and Baseball games. I'm also wondering if there would even be a demand for such a kit, if people have mentioned wanting something like that in the past. I happen to own a (non-functioning) Football which is why I ask, would be nice to get it working and have it play all three games.

Ya, suggesting that you guys do even more is easy for me to say without considering the effort involved so I apologize if this question comes off that way, it's not meant to. I'm just curious how the decision process (what kits to attempt) works.
 
I am not a kit maker but I can clue you in on their decision process. It is pretty much the same for ANY product.

Before you endeavor to start such a project you must ask a series of questions:

1. Is there a need for this kit?
2. Is there a WANT for this kit?
3. Would someone pay for this kit?
4. Could the kit be made cheaply enough to make it marketable?
5. Could the kit still be sold for enough to make back the projected cost of the kit and/or profit?
6. Do I (the creator) personally need the kit?
7. Do the suggested games use the same processor/hardware?

There are other things to think about but, this list covers the major questions. If at least 6 of these get a "yes" then the kit has a chance to be made. In your case, I think every single answer would be "no" so I don't see much hope for your idea. Of course the real decider is number 6. If that one is yes... then the rest of the questions may not matter at all!
 
I am not a kit maker but I can clue you in on their decision process. It is pretty much the same for ANY product.

Before you endeavor to start such a project you must ask a series of questions:

1. Is there a need for this kit?
2. Is there a WANT for this kit?
3. Would someone pay for this kit?
4. Could the kit be made cheaply enough to make it marketable?
5. Could the kit still be sold for enough to make back the projected cost of the kit and/or profit?
6. Do I (the creator) personally need the kit?
7. Do the suggested games use the same processor/hardware?

There are other things to think about but, this list covers the major questions. If at least 6 of these get a "yes" then the kit has a chance to be made. In your case, I think every single answer would be "no" so I don't see much hope for your idea. Of course the real decider is number 6. If that one is yes... then the rest of the questions may not matter at all!

That's sort of what I was thinking as well. But I have slight disagreements with some of the specifics -

1. Need? No. But that would probably hold for most multigame kits. Need is more in line with reproduction parts.
2. Want? Sure, if you own a Football or Baseball or always wanted one though I'd agree that the level of want for one of those is nowhere near as high as a want for something like a Star Wars or Defender.
3. Again, I think people who already own a Football or Baseball would pay for such a kit. But it's a niche cab, not as adaptable as an upright (no upright versions of Football or Baseball or Soccer).
4. No idea. If it falls in line with other groups of games that can be collected into a multigame kit because the boards are similar enough then probably. Also depends on the price of the eventual kit.
5. Depends on the price. I don't know how much the average Football/Baseball game owner would spend for something like that vs. the Stargate owner who wants to also play Defender.
6. No idea. But, again, multigame kits don't seem to fall into the "need" category like repro harnesses and control panels and side art do so even the kit creator might do it more out of the challenge aspect rather than really needing it. Street cred, basically.
7. I suppose that is the key. And the reason for my initial question. I'm guessing yes but I have no idea.

I was thinking more in terms of "What's next?" What other groups of games could be bundled into a multigame kit vs. simply making a new version of an already existing multigame kit? Especially something rare that would have that wow factor going for it. And maybe Football/Baseball/Soccer doesn't hit that mark. It seems like when I read about someone wondering if he should buy a Football that's for sale the response is usually a resounding "Yes!" so it seems like that game is popular enough. Wouldn't it be moreso with Baseball in it, too? I say yes but I'm just one Football game fan.
 
That's sort of what I was thinking as well. But I have slight disagreements with some of the specifics -

1. Need? No. But that would probably hold for most multigame kits. Need is more in line with reproduction parts.
2. Want? Sure, if you own a Football or Baseball or always wanted one though I'd agree that the level of want for one of those is nowhere near as high as a want for something like a Star Wars or Defender.
3. Again, I think people who already own a Football or Baseball would pay for such a kit. But it's a niche cab, not as adaptable as an upright (no upright versions of Football or Baseball or Soccer).
4. No idea. If it falls in line with other groups of games that can be collected into a multigame kit because the boards are similar enough then probably. Also depends on the price of the eventual kit.
5. Depends on the price. I don't know how much the average Football/Baseball game owner would spend for something like that vs. the Stargate owner who wants to also play Defender.
6. No idea. But, again, multigame kits don't seem to fall into the "need" category like repro harnesses and control panels and side art do so even the kit creator might do it more out of the challenge aspect rather than really needing it. Street cred, basically.
7. I suppose that is the key. And the reason for my initial question. I'm guessing yes but I have no idea.

I was thinking more in terms of "What's next?" What other groups of games could be bundled into a multigame kit vs. simply making a new version of an already existing multigame kit? Especially something rare that would have that wow factor going for it. And maybe Football/Baseball/Soccer doesn't hit that mark. It seems like when I read about someone wondering if he should buy a Football that's for sale the response is usually a resounding "Yes!" so it seems like that game is popular enough. Wouldn't it be moreso with Baseball in it, too? I say yes but I'm just one Football game fan.

1. Need - refrences games that the original boards are failing or very unreliable. Pole Position and Berzerk are good examples of games that the original hardware has become so unreliable that in order to have one many people will need replacement hardware.

2. Want - Ask the group. I really doubt you'll find more than a half dozen people interested in something like this and historicly only 1/10th to 1/4 of those interested actually come forward and put up money. There is absolutely no ROI for developing this boardset.

3. See point #2

4. I haven't looked over these particular black and white games but often in the black and white world the boards look very similar while having very different pinouts and even different power requirements. It would create a situation where something like this will need to be a complete board, and that board will need to be alterable in order to fit the wiring harness for each different cabinet. Since the power requirements of the new board will be standardized a switching power supply will almost certainly need to be installed in the cabinet now as well.

5. Price would be extremely high compared to other multi kits. Also buyers will have to factor in the additional costs such as the switching power supply. Again, I have no idea how this particular multi could be cost effective to build.

6. Multi creators almost always (I am leaving it open with the 'almost', in fact I don't know of a single multi creator who didn't want the kit for themself when they built it.) want the particular kit and that is why they take on the challenge.

7. I'll look into this right now and post again in a few minutes...
 
After a preliminary look through the manuals it appears that Football and Baseball are running on nearly identical hardware. Basketball is slightly different and uses different power/has a different pinout though it uses the same processor. I would bet that you can build an adaptor to run a Basketball board in a Football or Baseball cab fairly easily. I looked for info on Soccer but the manual that I have access to (Crazy Kong) appears to be incomplete so I can't comment on it.


If I intended to do what you want I would either build a switcher or use a Jamma multi-switcher with everything adapted to this cabinet. I would connect each different game board through the multi-switcher and then I'd be able to toggle through each game. Multi-switchers have existed since the early 80's and are much more affordable now than they were back then. I know the multi-Jamma boards have plenty of room for the signals on the two player boardsets and I'd be willing to bet there is plenty of room left over for players three and four.
 
Basketball is a horizontal game...

debbie_downer.jpg
 
I know, I was just looking at all of the Atari "sports" games. It seems that Atari primarily used the same hardware for all of them and I was comparing the ones that I know about and was able to find some info for.

And I appreciate the effort. I didn't think an answer of any kind would materialize so quickly. Doesn't hurt to ask, I guess.
 
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