Punch out to SPO conversion with NO SPO PCB possible?

sugar_ray

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Punch out to SPO conversion with NO SPO PCB possible?

Just wondering if its possible to CONVERT from punch out to super via rom flash withOUT needing an original SPO PCB??

Last checked, Super had a security method preventing this. Has this method ever been worked around?

I have a fully restored Punch out cabinet. Guess what Im hoping to do is simply flash the roms and swap chips in the PCB. Lastly, adding the 5 way joystick should be a piece of cake.

I have savaged the net for Super PCB's and the ones I do find are far more then Im willing to pay. I fully realize that Super was a rare PCB as most arcade owners passed on the Super upgrade kit. Original Punch out was still making owners tons of $$$$$ when Super was introduced. Just a curious, anyone know what an arcade owner would have paid for a JUST the Super upgrade kit back in the day?

There is a Super "FREE PLAY MODE" hack downloadable on line. Does this flash get by the security measure Nintendo used?

Im sure I read a while back that 2600 was working on a dual punch out board. Any luck?
 
There may be a Double Punch-Out board option coming out in the future. All you would need is either a PO or a SPO PCB and it will allow you to play both games using the same PCB.

Do a search here on the forum for it.
 
ya thanks I "DID" read about that.
However, that project seems to have been on hold for a while.
 
2600 has already successfully recreated the small security board that goes between the CPU board and the CPU. In fact, I was the beta tester of that board and it worked perfectly. I played to about a half a million with no issues using his security board in place of my original and called it good.

So in addition to 2600's security board, you would also need the SPO roms plus I believe the color PROMs are different as well (I don't know if the color PROMs are a separate thing or would be considered part of the SPO ROMs).

It wasn't too long ago that it would have been next to impossible to convert a PO to SPO without an official Nintendo-Pak conversion kit, but now thanks to MAME developers, Jrok, 2600 (security board) and Mike Haaland (reproduction Nintendo 5-way joystick), it is now quite easy to do (assuming 2600 is selling the security boards yet).

You could also wait for the Double Punch-Out which would be very cool to have.
 
I'm still working on the Double Punch kit. Actually was just testing something yesterday. Although I could, I haven't started selling the SPO Security boards yet though. They are the same boards used in my Double Punch kit and I wanted to sell them with that first.

BTW, there is more then one type of PO board. My kit should work with all of them.
 
GOOD info guys!

Are the Super roms not downloadable? If so, wouldn't it be just a matter of flashing, changing out joystick and acquiring 2600's security board?

2600 : Just curious as to what exactly will be in your kit once released? Super roms and security board? By the way......keep up the awesome work! Efforts like this are what keeps this crazy hobby going!

A double punch out sounds great! Just trying to figure out what will be the cheaper route? A double kit or acquiring a Super PCB? That is IF I can even find a super PCB. Quarterarcade had one listed for $285. Probably $185 dollars MORE then I wanted to pay for it :)

However, I have discovered Super PCB's are becoming extinct, while original punch out boards are pretty much a dime a dozen!
 
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GOOD info guys!

Are the Super roms not downloadable? If so, wouldn't it be just a matter of flashing, changing out joystick and acquiring 2600's security board?

Yes, you can use the SPO ROMs from MAME, and with 2600's security board, you could convert a PO to an SPO. 2600 said that he is not selling the security board by itself yet, so you'll probably have to wait. However, Jrok was the first person to whip up an SPO security board (though I don't think it has been fully tested like 2600's has), and he posted the VHDL source code for it on his site (link), so if you are technically inclined you could make your own.
However, I have discovered Super PCB's are becoming extinct, while original punch out boards are pretty much a dime a dozen!

They've always been hard to find. The last person I know of to have an NOS SPO Nintendo-Pak conversion kit was RayB from the BYOAC boards, which he got at an auction for $20 (!) in the early 1990s. He installed it on a PO machine which he later sold.

I considered myself lucky to find my used partial kit (it was missing the "Ducking Pull" sticker and one of the Super side decals) when I did. At the time I felt like I was overpaying for it, but considering what a board alone sells for now (and how hard they are to find), I guess I got a good deal. Plus, I ended up with an unapplied original "Super" side decal, which as far as anyone knows, is the only one still in existence. That allowed me to scan it, trace it, and have a local screen printer do a reproduction run of them; and I guess Rich from ThisOldGame.com is thinking about doing another run of them.

ALWAYS "FREE" on mame JEFF

I know, I know.....just NOT the same though

You're right, it is not the same, especially for this game. SPO is jacked on MAME, and always has been.
 
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Yes, you can use the SPO ROMs from MAME, and with 2600's security board, you could convert a PO to an SPO. 2600 said that he is not selling the security board by itself yet, so you'll probably have to wait. However, Jrok was the first person to whip up an SPO security board (though I don't think it has been fully tested like 2600's has), and he posted the VHDL source code for it on his site (link), so if you are technically inclined you could make your own.

Be careful, MAME only has PO and SPO ROMs for one version of the board. There are multiple versions.
 
i think left and right punch together should = duck


for us regular PO dudes


instead of buying the upgrade
 
Really ? Is it just the lag issue on the controls ?

- James

There is the lag issue on the controls, plus Dragon Chan's behavior is off. Great Tiger's behavior is off too, but not as bad as Dragon Chan's is. A routine I use to beat DC1 in under 30 seconds on my machine never works in MAME, but the worst part is when his kicks start getting fast starting with DC3, I can only manage to duck them maybe 75% of the time in MAME; whereas I'd have to be half-asleep to ever get hit by the same kicks on the real hardware. That probably has to do with the lag though. Maybe it all has to do with the lag, and it is only most apparent with DC and GT because they require the tightest timing for routines to work (and to avoiding getting kicked by DC3 and higher).

Also, the sound effect for Dragon Chan's kick is wrong, but that's minor.
 
There is the lag issue on the controls, plus Dragon Chan's behavior is off. Great Tiger's behavior is off too, but not as bad as Dragon Chan's is

Ahh.. I wonder if that could that be because of a differing ROM revisions that "2600" pointed out ?

- James
 
Ahh.. I wonder if that could that be because of a differing ROM revisions that "2600" pointed out ?

- James

Possibly, but I think it is more likely due to the lag issue (I think I have the same ROM revision as is in MAME but I'm not sure; it's been a long time since I discussed it with 2600). With Great Tiger 2 for example, you can trigger a pattern on the real hardware by throwing a head punch as soon as the fight starts. To make sure the punch is thrown as soon as the fight starts, you hold the punch button down beforehand and it will throw the punch as soon as it is able. If you do it just by waiting until the fight starts and then pressing the button, it usually won't trigger the pattern (unless you get lucky with the timing). A matter of milliseconds makes a difference in this case.

So in MAME with the input lag, that punch is never going to be thrown instantly as the fight starts, even if you're holding the punch button down as the fight starts; so you don't get the pattern that allows for a 22.92 second knockdown.

With the fighters that aren't dependent upon you doing something to trigger a pattern (i.e., the ones where you wait for them to make the first move), there isn't any difference with the way they fight in MAME compared to the real hardware. It is only in situations where tight timing is required to produce X result on the real hardware, that MAME doesn't produce X result.
 
so did you guys ever finish this or not?

a little to late for me but still interested since i'm restoring a punch out cab.
 
Play an older version of mame on a crt monitor and see if your input lag goes away. I have been into mame since 2000 and I never heard about input lag until the last few years.
 
I play Mame on a core i7 3770k running at 4.5 Ghz, and it plays just like I remember back in the day. I even have dual monitors with the main being a 21' CRT. Play both PO and SPO pretty frequently. Love that Mame supports the dual monitors for arcade authenticity. :)
 
Play an older version of mame on a crt monitor and see if your input lag goes away. I have been into mame since 2000 and I never heard about input lag until the last few years.

I usually use version .61 from 2002, and I've always used a CRT monitor (I hate LCDs). Super Punch-Out in Mame simply has input lag, no matter which version of Mame you use (Punch-Out may too, I don't remember). It doesn't matter to me though, because I own a real Super Punch-Out machine (along with a Punch-Out boardset that I can swap into it).

I can't think of any noticeable input lag on any other game I've tried in Mame.
 
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