Punch-Out Filter board. Interesting issue. No filter = NO coin up???

sugar_ray

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Punch-Out Filter board. Interesting issue. No filter = NO coin up???

Howdy gang!!!

A minor issue with a Punch-Out unit. Recently I noticed the opponents in the game (Glass Joe, Piston etc...) would blink, become invisible and blurry for a second every time they threw a punch!! First thought was bad Rom?? re-seated all chips etc. and nothing changed!!

I took a pencil eraser to the filter board's edge copper connector to clean it. This seemed to have fixed the problem as the game was flawless again. At least for a bout 2 days when the issue returned. Eraser to the filter solves the problem temporarily only to have it come back. WTF??? So I eliminated the Filter board all together and the game has worked long term. However.......when eliminating the filter board all together the machine will NOT credit when a coin is inserted!! WITH the filter board ON it DOES register coins.

Normally I would say leave it in free play mode and call it a day BUT this particular machine resides in a bowling center and does quite well during disco bowling weekends.

I am only guessing that the filter board may be causing a dropage in voltage at some point resulting in the problem because without the board the problem doesn't exist. What I am wondering is WHY does the machine REQUIRE the filter to accept coins? Is that normal or is my machine possessed??

thanks all!!
 
Without the filter board in my spo one of the two coin mechs still work. With it, both work.
 
Without the filter board in my spo one of the two coin mechs still work. With it, both work.


Interesting!! I NEVER thought about TESTING the OTHER side. Was just dropping coins through ONE mech. Will try the other side tomorrow. What is the deal with the filter board anyways?? There is NOT much on them to go bad.
 
My PO is the same way, only one side will coin without the filter pcb installed. I've not looked at it, but i suspect you could just jumper from one coin switch to the other and problem solved.
 
Yup yup!! Thanks guys!!

Simply removed the filter, jumped both mechs and life is good!!

Thanks for the tip. Wonder why Nintendo made Punch-Outs that way??
 
Yup yup!! Thanks guys!!

Simply removed the filter, jumped both mechs and life is good!!

Thanks for the tip. Wonder why Nintendo made Punch-Outs that way??

Mine is the same way. Without the filter board, only one coin mechanism works. I actually made a thread about this a long time ago (link) asking if it was the same way for other people, but no one replied. Now I know that they are all like that. I did the same thing to fix the problem; I simply jumped the working mechanism over to the non-working mechanism (I did it without cutting anything in the original harness, so it is completely reversible).

What I can't figure out is what could possibly cause one of the coin mechanisms to not work when the filter board is not in place.

By the way, I had the same graphical problems as you, and I went about solving them in the same way (cleaning contacts with an eraser which helped temporarily, and finally eliminating the filter board). However, even eliminating the filter board only helped temporarily. Finally I tested +5V from the stock PP-1000A power supply, and it was low; 4.89V (link); and when I adjusted it to 5V, that fixed it for good.

I then decided to replace all the radial capacitors in the power supply, given that it was ~25 years old. I noticed that one of the legs on one of the eight 3300 μF filter capacitors had never been soldered to the board from the factory; a manufacturing defect.

Here is a list of all the capacitors you need if you want a "cap kit" for the PO/SPO power supply:

Code:
Qty.  Farads    Voltage  Location
1     330  μF   200V	 C5
1     4.7  μF   50V	 C7
1     100  μF   50V	 C8
1     1000 μF   50V	 C16
1     47   μF   35V      C17
8     3300 μF   10V      C19-C26

The maximum height you have to work with in there is about 1.5". The only one that you may have trouble finding in a short enough height is the C5 one, which is originally short and fat. I bought this one, which was perfect.

Also, I'll repost this for good measure:

Note to anyone who has a Punch-Out power supply: you should check the C8 capacitor. The schematics for the PP-1000A power supply show a 47μF 35V capacitor at that location. When I originally took mine apart to check the values of all the radial capacitors in order to buy replacements, I noticed it had a 100μF capacitor at C8. I thought that was odd, but I ordered the same value for a replacement (a 50V version though).

Then I remembered reading this from the Star Tech Journal:

pp-1000, pp-1200, pp-1300 power supplies must have c8 replaced!
use 100mfd at 35v, 105 degrees centigrade.
failure of cap causes overvoltage and board destruction.

So if you have a 47μF capacitor at C8 (or even if you have a 100μF but it is old), you might want to replace it with a new 100μF capacitor.
 
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Maxim

Thank you for all the information!! You were right. My graphic problem was only solved short term. It has returned!! If I use an eraser the graphic problem disapears for a couple days then comes back. Strange......you would think if the edge connector was getting the low 4.89 volts and is effecting the graphics then why does it NOT do it all the time?? I have not had the time to check the voltage at my edge connector but I will. I will look into ADJUSTING the power supply and hopefully low voltage is my issue.

One thing I did notice.....my harness has been hacked up coming out of the power supply so I am "NOT" sure if it is an original Punch Out power supply or a previous owner made do with a replacement from a different Nintendo machine? In 12 years of owning the machine, it is the first time I have ever paid any attention to the supply. it's UGLY to say the least!! They used "SPEAKER WIRE" of all things. The speaker wire comes out of one of the supply vent holes and is attached with electrical tape to the harness. Thing of beauty I tell ya!!

I will have to snap a few pics for ya and maybe you can tell me if my supply is a match to yours?
 
Strange......you would think if the edge connector was getting the low 4.89 volts and is effecting the graphics then why does it NOT do it all the time??

Some parts of the game seem to require more voltage than others. In my case, the graphics would always glitch when Glass Joe steps back, shakes his fist, and the announcer says "Come on, come on". Everything would be fine before that, and usually everything would be fine after that. Sometimes I'd get random glitches at other points in the game. Oddly enough, my SPO board worked fine in the same machine, so it must have been less sensitive to low voltage.

One thing I did notice.....my harness has been hacked up coming out of the power supply so I am "NOT" sure if it is an original Punch Out power supply or a previous owner made do with a replacement from a different Nintendo machine? In 12 years of owning the machine, it is the first time I have ever paid any attention to the supply. it's UGLY to say the least!! They used "SPEAKER WIRE" of all things. The speaker wire comes out of one of the supply vent holes and is attached with electrical tape to the harness. Thing of beauty I tell ya!!

I will have to snap a few pics for ya and maybe you can tell me if my supply is a match to yours?

Yeah, you may have a standard Peter Chou style switching power supply in there. It doesn't really matter one way or another; both the stock Punch-Out power supply and standard switchers have an adjustment pot for +5V (the pot on the Punch-Out power supply is VR2, inside the case).
 
I thought to rebuild mine when a problem would occur, but your advise saved my board... finished to rebuild two minutes ago, thanks a lot!!
 
was finally able to tackle this today. Got the Volta meter out and was getting a reading 4.92.
You were also correct as my Punch-out has the Peter Chou supply in it. I suppose the dead give away was the fact that my harness was hacked up to wire in the Peter Chou model. I can only assume somewhere down the line the original power supply was replaced.

Anyways......what is nice about the Peter Chou model. There was NO need to pop off the case because the adjusting pot sticks out the side. A simple turn and and the volts started to increase. I was just testing power at the harness. Got a 5.31 and left it at that.

Plugged the harness back into the PCB and we are rockin' and rolling. I did notice a dramatic change right away in BOTH my monitors. The colors look richer and slightly darker. Almost as if I had replaced the monitors all together. A little bit of a power bump and they sparkle!! weirdness???

Will play on it for a few days and see if the voltage bump has cured the issue. Hope so!!

Thanks again for the suggestion and well written post MAXIM. Very help full!!
 
Got a 5.31 and left it at that.

I'd aim for between 5.0 and 5.1V (as measured at the card edge pins) and see how that goes. 5.31 may not cause any problems, but if you can get proper function from ~5.0V, there's no need to go any higher.

There are some boards which do need voltage higher than 5.0. I have an Ikari Warriors that I get graphical glitches with if the voltage is much less than 5.2. Punch-Out seems to do fine at ~5.0 though, as does Super Punch-Out. Actually, Super Punch-Out ran fine at 4.89V; oddly enough; but Punch-Out didn't like it.
 
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