Programmer Question (PALCE16V8H)

Scucci

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I've never dealt with these things before (PALs), so... got a quick question.

I have a Street Fighter II: World Warrior board that's missing it's IC1 (C632) on the C board. I also have another board that has the chip and works 100%. I also have an EMP-20 programmer and I just happen (amazingly) to have the module to do PALCE16V8H's. So... miracle there.

Anywhos, I pull the chip, put it in the programmer, read it, verify it, and save it as JEDEC. And of course it doesn't match up to anything the MAME set has for IC1... not even close. I have a 3K byte file, the MAME set has a 279 byte file. I've tried saving it as all sorts of different types... nothing is coming anywhere close to the file in MAME.

So... something's screwy here. How should I be reading this chip and programming a copy of it?
 

That does look more like what I ended up with when I copied it... nothing matches up, but still... Is there some protection or something in these things? Even with that my file is still MUCH bigger than that. That one goes to 02D7... while mine goes up to 0AA0. Does the EMP just put a lot more gibberish into the file (this file was made by blah blah blah using blah blah blah...)?

But, that aside... with that c632.jed, I'll just load up the software, select my maker and device, load that .jed into the buffer and fire away?
 
These chips have a security bit, which when set will make the chip unreadable -well it will read but the info you get is just rubbish. The rubbish will be consistant so you can read and verify but the data you get is junk.

The test would be to read the chip, then program that data you get into a second chip (do not erase the one you know works) and then see if the second chip works on the board. It probably won't

The one in MAME might be the right data, or it might not, it also may not be the data for your version of the game. But if the above attempt to duplicate your working chip fails then it is your best bet.

Some folk have been lucky to find official PALs where the manufacturer forgot to set the security bit in the chip so the contents can be read out again. Other than that there are hardware systems that can brute force the contents but do not attempt to directly read the data out of the chip.
 
These chips have a security bit, which when set will make the chip unreadable -well it will read but the info you get is just rubbish. The rubbish will be consistant so you can read and verify but the data you get is junk.

The test would be to read the chip, then program that data you get into a second chip (do not erase the one you know works) and then see if the second chip works on the board. It probably won't

The one in MAME might be the right data, or it might not, it also may not be the data for your version of the game. But if the above attempt to duplicate your working chip fails then it is your best bet.

Some folk have been lucky to find official PALs where the manufacturer forgot to set the security bit in the chip so the contents can be read out again. Other than that there are hardware systems that can brute force the contents but do not attempt to directly read the data out of the chip.

If I had to take a bet, I'd say that's what I'm seeing here then. The data just repeats over and over and over again and isn't consistent with anything I'm seeing either from Channel's link or the MAME ROM.

I'll get a couple of these chips in to play with and hopefully get one working before I fry them both. lol
 
PALCE, PEEL, and GAL chips are reusable and interchangeable as long as the speeds match.

If you have one on a scrap board, grab it and go.
 
It can change the timings of the circuit and cause glitches.

Will it? Who knows!

Can it? YES.
 
I'm not going to sweat it too much. The -25's seem to be a little cheaper right now on the Bay... but -15's (the speed the originals are) are only a couple of bucks more expensive... but still, 5 for $10 shipped, I can't really complain too much about that.

Thank you for all the information. First time dealing with these things, and hopefully the last.
 
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