possibly looking at non working pins.. what to look for?

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possibly looking at non working pins.. what to look for?

i will be visiting a guy later tomorrow and he has a few non-working pins. i have no idea what to look for besides the general condition/flaking paint/all the parts there etc. at the moment i dont even know the names or manufacturers of the games.

what else should i look for? what should i stay away from? and what would be a good price to get them for if they were complete & average condition, but non working?

thanks
 
i will be visiting a guy later tomorrow and he has a few non-working pins. i have no idea what to look for besides the general condition/flaking paint/all the parts there etc. at the moment i dont even know the names or manufacturers of the games.

what else should i look for? what should i stay away from? and what would be a good price to get them for if they were complete & average condition, but non working?

thanks

Personally, I wouldn't touch an Electromechanical pin. Get at least a solid state machine (easy to tell since they have LED score displays instead of mechanical wheels). Some people like them, but I don't want to maintain that type of machine. You like the old machines that chime instead of electronic noise/sounds then you might like an EM. EM pins usually go for very cheap working. I see them here on CL for $200-$300 pretty frequently. So they wouldn't be worth much as a project unless one was unique and sought after. I wouldn't get that type of machine as my first. You might want to get something that appeals to more people so it is easier to get rid of if you don't stick with pins.

Get one that is complete and preferably in good condition.

If your going to buy a project, best to do your homework on the particular game first to see how available parts are. Like if the plastics, back-glass has been reproed or not. Some of the same stuff you would consider for a video game project I suspect.

I would personally stay away from a MPU board that has really bad acid damage unless the price is right. The replacement MPUs are only for some games and cost $200. So you really need to take that into account. You can print the list of pins supported by the MPUs and take that with you.

http://www.allteksystems.com/

I personally like solid state machines around the 1980 timeframe and a little there after. The big Dot Matrix Display pins are fun, but I don't think that I really want to own one.

Really, you have to get one that speaks to you. If you have an iPhone or something, hit ipdb.org while your there and look-up the rating of the various machines to see what other people think of them. You could also go there before hand and print out the list of the top 300 pins. :)

-VJ
 
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I would jump on any EM pin available. Repair is usually very simple, just a few switch adjustments and you're good to go.

SS and DMD pins can be fun but, as stated above, look for acid damaged boards. They can be a bear to fix but it is possible.

I wouldn't pay more than $150 a piece for most non-working EM titles. SS machines are worth more I'd go up to $250 each for them. Finally, DMD pins have a pretty high value, non-working I'd be willing to pay $600 tops...

Part-out value is what I base my opinion on, though I would try and repair any machine before parting it out...
 
EM pins are a nightmare to work on.
Inside of any em pin you will find cigarette burns from techs smoking cigs and scratching their ass trying to figure out whats wrong with them.
 
EM pins are a nightmare to work on.


I guess it all depends on your background and understanding of circuitry. I find EM pins/arcade machines simple by comparison to DMD machines. It is true that they do not have any form of self diagnostics but with a schematic of the machine in question (or at least a siimilar machine) they are intuitively easy for me to repair.
 
EM pins are simple and straightforward to work on, and almost always involve repairs requiring very inexpensive, simple parts. All you'll need are a couple of screwdrivers, a meter, and some other basic tools. Just make sure that all the parts are there and that the playfield isn't worn through and you should be good.

Solid State pins can be a mixed bag. Look out for battery acid damaged CPU boards. Look inside the head and be sure that ALL the boards you need are there - you should be able to see empty spots where boards were *supposed* to go. Missing boards are a real possibility on SS pins, since the same board works in multiple machines. Also be on the lookout for missing displays, cracked displays, etc - some of those displays are very expensive. The biggest pain in the neck with SS pins is that you run the risk of needing some expensive part - display, board, etc. So watch out. Plan on replacing connectors - most solid state pins are known for crappy connectors, so expect to see burned ones. Burned spots on boards are also pretty common, some parts run hot. Inspect to make sure it's something simple like a hot running resistor or diode, and not an exploded chip....

In all pins, don't worry about degraded rubber parts - you can get a kit of all the rubber rings and bits you need for like ten bucks from Pinball Resource. In any pin you get, unless it's fairly new or been maintained, count on replacing all the rubber parts, the pinball itself (gets worn and pitted), and a whole pile of bulbs. These parts are all very cheap - around $20 to do an entire machine.

In general, look for the same kinds of things you would on video games - evidence of moisture, rust, corrosion, dead animals... Look for backglass flaking and playfield wear. Make sure all the plastic parts are there and not broken.

And, of course, look for machines that you like, or that you would enjoy.

-Ian
 
dont know the titles yet, and probably wont know until i am there. thanks for the info so far.. i will be printing out a bunch
 
Price and condition are the most important factors in my opinion. If the backglass and playfield are good pretty much everything else is fixable.
 
i love em pins...

99% of the time its a sticky stepper/dirty contacts or something simple like that..


when i get my em i file ALL contacts to be gin with... sometimes thats all it takes...

clean the steooer contacts, lube the center shaft of the steppers etc..


ince you kind of figure out what part does what theyre easy to figure out...


theres somewhere on the net thats a great resource for repairing em too..


ss pins are also fun, as stared watch out for acid damaged mpu boards..
so far my record is 3/3 as in 3 of 3 repaired... i repair them because, well, im cheap heh btu it takes ALOT of time and parience to bring them back... repair isnt pretty but it works..


if you find one with a worn playfield and or peeling backglass the values gone, if that stuff looks ok usually theyre worth saving.... i wont pay more then $250 for a project pin, and prefer to find em in the 100 range although again if its something rarer or in super nice cosmetic shape then mabye id go more.
 
EM pins are simple and straightforward to work on, and almost always involve repairs requiring very inexpensive, simple parts. All you'll need are a couple of screwdrivers, a meter, and some other basic tools. Just make sure that all the parts are there and that the playfield isn't worn through and you should be good.

-Ian

I agree, it's really a lot easier than people claim it is. EM pins are really logical in design, if you ever get to a point where you start to understand the logic behind how they work, they're very simple to work on. When I was younger, I had two or three EM pins that kicked my ass, but as I got a little older and messed with them a little more, I started to see how simple they were to fix. There's absolutely nothing like firing one up that's been sitting forever broken, too.

You mess with it, and try this, and try this, and weird shit happens, and the scores won't reset, and then finally... magically, you hit the start button and the damn pinball pops out into the shooter lane. READY TO GO. LOL It's a great feeling when you see the pinball jump out.
 
EM pins are a nightmare to work on.
Inside of any em pin you will find cigarette burns from techs smoking cigs and scratching their ass trying to figure out whats wrong with them.
I can't understand why people say EM's are hard to work on. I personaly find them quite easy now that i've messing with them for a while. On the other hand I have trouble with SS machines I don't have near the knowledge needed to maintain them but I'm learning all the time.
Glennon
 
i will be visiting a guy later tomorrow and he has a few non-working pins. i have no idea what to look for besides the general condition/flaking paint/all the parts there etc. at the moment i dont even know the names or manufacturers of the games.

what else should i look for? what should i stay away from? and what would be a good price to get them for if they were complete & average condition, but non working?

thanks
I'd personaly get one that is working that maybe needs to be shopped and build up your knowledge of working on them. Unless you already know what your doing then a non working project would be ok.

Glennon
 
I love old Electro Mechanicals... Not as flashy, no ramps, slower gameplay... but it is the true game of pinball without all the bullshit piled on. They're about skill and nostalgia. They really aren't very hard to work on either, and once dialed in are pretty reliable. The parts are simple to repair, mostly cleaning and making sure contacts are open or closed when they're supposed to be. With a proper fullsized schematic they're pretty easy to go thru and get going.

I've had alot of trouble with SS machines (1976-mid 80's). The boards get corroded and are a bitch to fix unless you have extra parts laying around or just want to throw in the towel and buy a new aftermarket board. I try to stay original when I can, therefore one of my machines is broken and I refuse to buy the aftermarket stuff even though I know its plug and play and would fix my problem. I have two SS's in my collection and while a little more advanced than EM's, by todays standards alot of snobby collectors think they are crap.

Personally if you're going for games that you want to keep, find something with a good theme that you like. Don't worry about what the market value is if you're getting it relatively cheap and its in descent shape, if its a theme you like you'll be in love and want more.

Physical condition of the playfield and backglass is most important, followed by complete and non-rotten electronics.
 
i will be visiting a guy later tomorrow and he has a few non-working pins. i have no idea what to look for besides the general condition/flaking paint/all the parts there etc. at the moment i dont even know the names or manufacturers of the games.

what else should i look for? what should i stay away from? and what would be a good price to get them for if they were complete & average condition, but non working?

thanks

Title is very important. Not knowing what they are, non-working, probably $100-250 a piece. They could be worth significantly more, but we simply don't know enough to give a price.
 
I'd personaly get one that is working that maybe needs to be shopped and build up your knowledge of working on them. Unless you already know what your doing then a non working project would be ok.
This is good advice. Finding a mostly working one that needs cleaning is the way to go... spend a little bit extra and get something thats there or almost there. Buying a dead machine is a crapshoot and could be something easy, but more likely you'll be pissed and cussing.

Now that I know a little more about them I don't mind finding a project that can sit in the corner until I get it dialed in... but as a first one you want to play it sometime this year I would think! :)
 
EM pins are simple and straightforward to work on, and almost always involve repairs requiring very inexpensive, simple parts. All you'll need are a couple of screwdrivers, a meter, and some other basic tools. Just make sure that all the parts are there and that the playfield isn't worn through and you should be good.

Solid State pins can be a mixed bag. Look out for battery acid damaged CPU boards. Look inside the head and be sure that ALL the boards you need are there - you should be able to see empty spots where boards were *supposed* to go. Missing boards are a real possibility on SS pins, since the same board works in multiple machines. Also be on the lookout for missing displays, cracked displays, etc - some of those displays are very expensive. The biggest pain in the neck with SS pins is that you run the risk of needing some expensive part - display, board, etc. So watch out. Plan on replacing connectors - most solid state pins are known for crappy connectors, so expect to see burned ones. Burned spots on boards are also pretty common, some parts run hot. Inspect to make sure it's something simple like a hot running resistor or diode, and not an exploded chip....

In all pins, don't worry about degraded rubber parts - you can get a kit of all the rubber rings and bits you need for like ten bucks from Pinball Resource. In any pin you get, unless it's fairly new or been maintained, count on replacing all the rubber parts, the pinball itself (gets worn and pitted), and a whole pile of bulbs. These parts are all very cheap - around $20 to do an entire machine.

In general, look for the same kinds of things you would on video games - evidence of moisture, rust, corrosion, dead animals... Look for backglass flaking and playfield wear. Make sure all the plastic parts are there and not broken.

And, of course, look for machines that you like, or that you would enjoy.

-Ian

My tech who is very good and has done this for 20 years has a panic attack around EM's. he cannot do it. EM's are very hard to work on and to keep running that is why no one in retail will warr. them. If they are easy to you PLEASE COME AND WORK WITH US , I have a ton of them just sitting. I am in need of a good tech that has EM skills. It is funny it seems like there are 2 types of pinball people EM and SS and the EM guys can just look at that mess of a machine and know right off or within a few min's what is wrong and SS guys do not want to touch it.
 
i will be visiting a guy later tomorrow and he has a few non-working pins. i have no idea what to look for besides the general condition/flaking paint/all the parts there etc. at the moment i dont even know the names or manufacturers of the games.

what else should i look for? what should i stay away from? and what would be a good price to get them for if they were complete & average condition, but non working?

thanks

In my (not so experienced) opinion, I'd look for:
Playfield wear. If the playfield is completely shot, then I'd probably pass unless it was working.

Playfield parts & controller boards - I want to get all of the parts, then at least I have a fighting chance of making the thing live again. Since they aren't working, you won't know if the boards are any good, but if they are missing, you know you have to buy a full set.

Cabinet solidity - Is the cabinet solid? If not, then you might end up with nothing to put the playfield in.

Backglass - depending on machine, a new backglass can be hard to get (especially with older EMS)

displays - SS machines have gas-plasma displays, and EMs either have score reels, or just lamps behind the backglass. If it's solid state, the displays are available, but for EMs, the score reels are harder to come by.


As to solid state vs. EM - I'd be nervous about old EMs that haven't worked in a while because I'd be afraid that all the score reels and relays are going to be frozen and really hard to get loose. If it looks like stuff isn't all rusted shut, then an old EM could be fun to fix up.
 
My tech who is very good and has done this for 20 years has a panic attack around EM's. he cannot do it. EM's are very hard to work on and to keep running that is why no one in retail will warr. them. If they are easy to you PLEASE COME AND WORK WITH US , I have a ton of them just sitting. I am in need of a good tech that has EM skills. It is funny it seems like there are 2 types of pinball people EM and SS and the EM guys can just look at that mess of a machine and know right off or within a few min's what is wrong and SS guys do not want to touch it.
I feel like I can fix any EM fairly easy. I used to be scared till I learned how to read schematics and relized you have to be patient. I found the best thing to do when you get a machine new to you that's not working is to not try to fix any single problem but to go through and adjust and clean all cotacts,switches,score reels,ext. As for coming to work for you, I don't think I could spend all that time working on those EM machines and watch them get sold to somebody else. That is why you should sell all your EM's (no bingo machines) to me reasonable. I'm serious.

Glennon
 
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