It is the same thing, if we're speaking of ebay. That is what proxy bidding is.
The difference is that its the seller stealing from you, not your employee.
Possibe shill bid warning (Emergency Call Ambulance) eBay
- Thread starter teknomedic
- Start date
It is the same thing, if we're speaking of ebay. That is what proxy bidding is.
The difference is that its the seller stealing from you, not your employee.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
I'm fine with them selling it for $150 if that's what I was willing to bid. They didn't steal anything. I'm not saying everybody should do it, but when you're essentially in a BUSINESS NEGOTIATION with somebody......... dont' ever trust them! I pay what I'm willing to pay and not a penny more. You have to expect them to try and rip you off.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
The whole point of an auction is not to determine fair market value. It's to sell the item. Either buy it or don't.
What if there's a hurricane the day of the auction, and nobody shows up? Surely, that's cheating.
I think another thing that's stealing is when a buyer snipes. We should all reimburse the sellers, becuase that auction wasn't fair.
The whole argument is rediculous; bid what you want, and no matter what happens, you won't be dissapointed.
JamBurglar
Well-known member
Oh, when you put it THAT way, then I guess everything you're doing is totally legit and putting in fake bids to artificially inflate the price is totally legit. Sorry, I just got confused by economics and morals. Carry on . . .
This isn't entirely true... say you're willing to pay $300. The next highest legitimate bidder is willing to pay $100. The shill bidder bumps you up to $290. The shill bidder just cost you $190.
EDIT: Whoops, didn't see the extra pages + discussion about exactly this point. My bad.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
Nice try. Faking bids isn't stealing.
I go to an auction. Somebody breaks into my car and steals my stereo.
THAT's stealing. If the seller bids higher than me......... that's not stealing.
It's not that hard to understand, I'm surprised people get so upset over it.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
Somebody tell me the difference here.
Auction:
Seller puts up an item for sale.
You're willing to bid $300.
Nobody else bids, so you get it for $100...
You just stole $200 from the seller.
Auction:
Seller puts up an item for sale.
You're willing to bid $300.
Nobody else bids, so you get it for $100...
You just stole $200 from the seller.
Please let me know your ebay ID so I can add you to my 'do not buy from' list.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
P.M. me yours, so I can block your bids, and I'll give you my really hard to decipher Ebay Seller I.D. Don't tell anybody else; it's a secret.
That's why there are these things called "reserves". Reserves are set in place so sellers do not have to sell an item for less than they want to. You set a reserve at 300, Joey mc-richpants is willing to pay $10,000.
It sells for 300. Did Joey just steal $9,700 from you? No. Your argument is ridiculous.
But consider the reverse. The auction is at 300 10 minutes before closing. You say "Joey is rich, I know he will pay more" and start bidding on your own auction. You get it up to $5,000. Is that stealing? Yes.
EDIT: Maybe "fraud" as JamBurglar says is a better term. Either way it's not legal, not moral. Try telling eBay "Hey sometimes I use another account to bid on my own auctions" and see how they feel about it.
Last edited:
JamBurglar
Well-known member
I'm never said it was stealing. I specifically said it wasn't stealing. I said it was fraudulent.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
ITS THE SAME ARGUMENT!
The seller is willing to sell it for $100, that's why there's no reserve.
The buyer is willing to pay $300, that's why he did.
By YOUR argument, if the buyer gets shilled into paying more than 90 bucks, he got fucked.
If the seller gets shut out and it only gets 1 bid........ then he got fucked.
It's the same exact argument, either way. Both arguments are equally rediculous, becuase what it comes down to is..... again...
DONT BID MORE THAN YOU WANT TO PAY.
It's not that hard, it's actually a really, really simple idea that most 5 year olds have already grasped when they go to the candy store.
Nope. The argument is that if you want $5000 for it, then you set the reserve at $5000. You DON'T shill bid it up to $5000. Setting a reserve is the right, legal and ethical way to do it. If you disagree, you're wrong. Sorry.
EDIT: The counterpoint to shill bidding is if the buyer was scaring other potential bidders away from the auction by lying, saying things like "the machine doesn't work" or whatever (just an example). By which I mean, the buyer was deliberately taking action to lower the value of the item, just like the shill bidder directly takes action to raise the value of the item. Reserves + proxy bids (including sniping) are above the board. Other tactics are not.
DOUBLE EDITed for clarity.
Last edited:
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
O.K., then if you don't want to pay $300 for the game........... DONT PAY $300 FOR THE GAME. Only pay $100, becuase that's what you wanted it for.
SAME ARGUMENT
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
... and btw, people like you who get all upset about it need to stay away from auctions. Buy your shit at Wal-Mart.
djdaveofkc
Active member
I've dealt with Nate several times and have had good luck with all my machines. If you live close they will let you come and play them which helps a lot to see if their is any problems. Just my experience.
LyonsArcade
Well-known member
OH SHIT!
I just saw a '56 Corvette on Ebay for 2 grand. Completely restored.
I was watching the auction end, and apparently the seller had an additional account, and bid it up to 2,150 right in front of me in the last 5 seconds.
I went ahead and let it end. I've been looking for one and i'm willing to spend $25 grand, but he's a shill bidder.
I've learned recently that what's important isn't the price i'm willing to spend, or the value of the item; the only thing important is whether or not the seller started the auction HIGH ENOUGH FOR ME.
LOL
I just saw a '56 Corvette on Ebay for 2 grand. Completely restored.
I was watching the auction end, and apparently the seller had an additional account, and bid it up to 2,150 right in front of me in the last 5 seconds.
I went ahead and let it end. I've been looking for one and i'm willing to spend $25 grand, but he's a shill bidder.
I've learned recently that what's important isn't the price i'm willing to spend, or the value of the item; the only thing important is whether or not the seller started the auction HIGH ENOUGH FOR ME.
LOL
JamBurglar
Well-known member
I don't know man, it sounds to me like you're just trying to find ways to justify shifty activity. Like "hey, it's not my fault she got raped, she should have known not to walk down my rape alley! Everyone knows that alleys are for raping!"
You need to give it a rest. Your way wrong on this. Shill bidders suck.
Glennon
teknomedic
New member
wow... lol, what happened.
I guess I shouldn't have used the word "stole" earlier. My bad on that.
Like I said I agree in part. Only bid what you want to pay.
BUT... can you honestly tell me that you'd rather enter into an auction with a shill bidder that's trying to get your max bid of $1000 vs you getting a deal (if no shill bidding) at $200?
I mean really?.. you'd rather pay the extra $800 simply because of an artifical price increase due to shill bidding?
I can't agree with whoever is saying that the seller gets "screwed" if you get a deal on the auction though. They know the rules and if they don't want to get "screwed" then they should put a reserve on the auction. Simple as that.
Shill bidding doesn't only screw with the bidder(s), but (in eBay's case at least) the seller can then pay less fees by starting the auction lower. They then avoid the "sold" fees by entering a "non payment" status and relist the item. If they had a higher start price, the insertion fee goes up.
Anyway... this went a little off topic.
In the end though I'm not mad that they're doing it... but I certainly won't bid on their auctions.
I guess I shouldn't have used the word "stole" earlier. My bad on that.
Like I said I agree in part. Only bid what you want to pay.
BUT... can you honestly tell me that you'd rather enter into an auction with a shill bidder that's trying to get your max bid of $1000 vs you getting a deal (if no shill bidding) at $200?
I mean really?.. you'd rather pay the extra $800 simply because of an artifical price increase due to shill bidding?
I can't agree with whoever is saying that the seller gets "screwed" if you get a deal on the auction though. They know the rules and if they don't want to get "screwed" then they should put a reserve on the auction. Simple as that.
Shill bidding doesn't only screw with the bidder(s), but (in eBay's case at least) the seller can then pay less fees by starting the auction lower. They then avoid the "sold" fees by entering a "non payment" status and relist the item. If they had a higher start price, the insertion fee goes up.
Anyway... this went a little off topic.
In the end though I'm not mad that they're doing it... but I certainly won't bid on their auctions.
