Pole Position : the first 16 bit arcade?

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I was browsing wikipedia and came across the timeline of arcade games...it states that pole position was the first 16 bit arcade.

I thought all games were 8 bit in 1982

A game like Sinistar...is that 8 bit or 16?
 
I was browsing wikipedia and came across the timeline of arcade games...it states that pole position was the first 16 bit arcade.

This MAY be correct as pole position uses a Motorola 68K variant processor. It's actually 32bit INTERNAL architecture but some variants had 8 or 16bit external busses. (It took multiple bus cycles to read or write data)

I thought all games were 8 bit in 1982
Pole position is definitely 32/16 bit just don't know if it's the first.

A game like Sinistar...is that 8 bit or 16?
Sinistar/Robotron/Defender/Joust/Stargate/Bubbles are based on the same hardware using a 6809E processor which IS 8 bit

Edit-

I was confusing Pole position with Hangon which used the 68K, my bad.
 
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This MAY be correct as pole position uses a Motorola 68K variant processor. It's actually 32bit INTERNAL architecture but some variants had 8 or 16bit external busses. (It took multiple bus cycles to read or write data)

Yar interesting indeed! Pole Position uses 2x Zilog Z8002 cpu's which are indeed 16-bit.

Info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z8000

Quote: "One notable use of the Z8000 series was by Namco in the design of its famous Pole Position series of racing videogames. Two Z8002's (small-memory versions of the Z8000) were incorporated into the design."
 
This is correct, Pole Position (and Pole Position II) use two Zilog Z8002 processors which are 16-bit processors and one 8-bit Z80 processor. They are the only games known to use the Z8002. Note the Z8002 is small memory variant of the Z8000 family, the Z8002 could only address up to 64KB memory while the Z8001 could address up to 8MB memory. Note the Z8000 family is completely different from Zilog's 8-bit Z80 and it had nothing to do with Motorola's 68000 family.

More info about the Z8000 family here - http://www.kranenborg.org/z8000/

Note: The game list in Dragon Spirit lists Pole Position's release date as June 1982.
 
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Pole Position might also be the first game to use scaling sprites. It is also one of the first games to use stereo sound.
 
Pole Position might also be the first game to use scaling sprites. It is also one of the first games to use stereo sound.

Not sure in 1981 if Pole Position came before or after Sega's Turbo,
which also was one of the first arcade games to showcase its stereo sound!
 
Not sure in 1981 if Pole Position came before or after Sega's Turbo,
which also was one of the first arcade games to showcase its stereo sound!

I forgot about Turbo. I just checked MAME and Turbo does use scaling sprites albeit primitive ones and the cockpit cabinet had stereo sound. The game was crappy compared to Pole Position though.
 
While I am not arguing... I've probably put more quarters in to Turbo though.

We had a mini local to me at Rocky's pizza. There was no Pole Position within walking distance to me...
 
Pole Position might also be the first game to use scaling sprites. It is also one of the first games to use stereo sound.

Gyruss was the first arcade to have stereo sound....sinistar was the first to have stereo, but only in the sit down version.
 
Gyruss was the first arcade to have stereo sound....sinistar was the first to have stereo, but only in the sit down version.

As thegleek mentioned, Turbo had stereo sound and that was from 1981 which predates both.
 
I'm not sure what designates a game as 8-bit or 16 bits,
but I know the eproms were only 8-bit wide.

And I believe the data bus was also only 8-bit wide.

So unless the CPU read from two eproms at once (...which would seem unlikely),
I'm not sure if this fully qualifies as a true 16-bit game...

S.
 
I'm not sure what designates a game as 8-bit or 16 bits,
but I know the eproms were only 8-bit wide.

And I believe the data bus was also only 8-bit wide.

So unless the CPU read from two eproms at once (...which would seem unlikely),
I'm not sure if this fully qualifies as a true 16-bit game...

S.

Since the game used two Z8002 processors which are 16-bit, that qualifies it as a 16-bit game. Processor word size is what determines the processor bit size.

Note data bus size does not determine this. Consider the 8086 is a 16-bit processor with a 16-bit data bus but the 8088 (used in the IBM PC, XT and many early PCs) only has an 8-bit data bus but is otherwise fully compatible with the 8086. A similar situation is true of the 80386DX (32-bit CPU, 32-bit data bus) and the 80386SX (32-bit CPU, 16-bit data bus).
 
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Not sure in 1981 if Pole Position came before or after Sega's Turbo,
which also was one of the first arcade games to showcase its stereo sound!

PSE's Bazooka had stereo sound well before Pole Position, Turbo, Gyruss, or Sinistar... 1977 i think... I'm not sure if its the earliest, I wouldn't be surprised if there were earlier black and white games
 
PSE's Bazooka had stereo sound well before Pole Position, Turbo, Gyruss, or Sinistar... 1977 i think... I'm not sure if its the earliest, I wouldn't be surprised if there were earlier black and white games

false.

site: http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7061

schematics: http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/B/Bazooka PSE manual and schematics.pdf

image proof of monaural sound:

bazooka.jpg


fact: Sound: Amplified Mono (one channel)
 
Don't know about Bazooka (looks like 2 channels to me) but most 2-player b&w games were in stereo, or 2 channels - one for each player (ex: Atari's Tank and Drag Race). Something like Atari's Indy 800 would be an example of a game having 8 channels.
 
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you should probably understand how to read schematics before trying to throw them out incorrectly in a discussion, now not only do you look like an asshole, but also an idiot

whether considered stereo or not, that image shows only simplified cabinet wiring, whereas if you tried to learn rather than prove a point you would see each speaker not only driven by a different wire, but also its own accompanying circuit

Edit: here you go, from the link you provided:
 

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Don't know about Bazooka (looks like 2 channels to me) but most 2-player b&w games were in stereo, or 2 channels - one for each player (ex: Atari's Tank and Drag Race). Something like Atari's Indy 800 would be an example of a game having 8 channels.

Good point, Midway's Gun Fight could arguably be considered stereo, 1975... Left shots come from left speaker, right from right... And you do get a functional stereo effect when playing, but it could be said that stereo is different than player-specific speakers
 
you should probably understand how to read schematics before trying to throw them out incorrectly in a discussion, now not only do you look like an asshole, but also an idiot

whether considered stereo or not, that image shows only simplified cabinet wiring, whereas if you tried to learn rather than prove a point you would see each speaker not only driven by a different wire, but also its own accompanying circuit
false.

The diagram clearly shows that the coin switch, coin counter, bazooka, box switches, position pot, and both speakers are all connected to 1 wire, which are magically multiplexed by the upsidedown menorah. ;)


Regarding the original discussion... I'm not sure if I'd call Pole Position a 16-bit game. Yes, it has 2x 16-bit processors, but I believe the main program executes from the Z80, which is 8-bit. That's like calling the Sega Dreamcast a 128-bit console, because it had a 128-bit GPU (but a 32-bit CPU). The lines are sorta blurred when you start talking about something with multiple processors (and in the bit race, left up to marketing to decide how many bits the system is... I'm looking at you, Atari Jaguar).

DogP
 
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