POLL Pole Position... Cage or no cage?

[keithsarcade]

So I'm working on a PP. It currently has a cage but also has a standard wood mount for the boardset. Keeping in mind these boards like to heat up and I will be adding a cooling fan of some variety, what would you do? Leave the cage or eliminate it? Or perhaps keep the cage but drill some ventilation holes in it?

 

[Charles Kline]

Keep the cage. There was a factory added (and kit they sent out to ops) fan and cardboard wind tunnel. Mine has the factory stuff. The fan draws air through the holes in the cage and across the boards. I can take a photo if you want.

 

[Brentradio]

Keep the cage. There was a factory added (and kit they sent out to ops) fan and cardboard wind tunnel. Mine has the factory stuff. The fan draws air through the holes in the cage and across the boards. I can take a photo if you want.

I made my own, custom built for two boardsets!

 

[J67AB]

I made my own, custom built for two boardsets!

Upgraded the speakers too? Whatcha get? Better sound?

 

[andrewb]

Proportionally speaking, a PP boardset doesn't really generate that much more heat than any other boardset (i.e., it's doubled, as there are two boards, but it isn't any more than that, and it is spread out over twice the surface area).

You could certainly get away with not using a cage if you didn't have one, especially for light home use. But if you have a cage, AND you're going to run it with a fan, that's a better solution. But if no fan, you'd be better off without the cage.

 

[Brentradio]

Did you upgrade the speakers too? Better sound? Whatcha get?

Ha! I upgraded everything!

For pics see my Pole Position resto page:

"The only Pole Position Upright Multikit in the world with a brake and gas pedal! Also has the cockpit metal racetrack sign and ALL NOS parts including the entire NOS Steering wheel assembly, the entire NOS shifter, the entire NOS gas pedal and NOS brake assembly. NOS dash board, NOS control panel overlay, NOS dash sticker, and a NOS backdoor sheet. Over 50 NOS Parts installed. Has both Pole Position 1 & 2 boardsets easily swappable through the coindoor. Both boardsets were repaired by Mark in the UK with all new sockets, and the battery replaced with NVram to hold the high scores for ever. Both ARII boards were recapped, also new TIP32's and LM305's. The sense mod was also done on both. The power brick was repainted and has new fuses holders, new fuses and a new bridge rectifier. I tapped into the +5 and Ground on the harness and ran it to each of the test point tabs on the CPU and Video boards as well. This is swappable with the edge connector when changing boardsets. A hand made Cowl Induction system with 2 new fans was constructed to keep the boardsets cool. A fan was also placed into the backdoor for better circulation. This keeps the inside of the cabinet at a relatively cool 90 degrees. A donor Pole Position cab supplied the back door, the wood piece above the back door and a small piece by the gas pedal. A new monitor was installed and a new cardboard monitor bezel was made. New speakers, new marquee light bulb, new ballast, new starter, new T-molding, new easy slide leg levelers, new power cord, new coin mechs, new coin door light bulbs, new red plastic coin eject buttons, new Atari logo's, new locks, new nuts & bolts & screws were also installed. The marquee and glass bezel are original and in excellent shape. The side art is nice and complete with a few scratches here and there. All metal parts were nylon bead blasted and repainted black. A power strip was installed inside the coindoor to power the fans, the monitor, a small nightlight to help see when swapping the boardsets, and the main power for the game. This has been a 4 year project and has cost me more than I care to admit. Oh well, what's done is done. I'm just glad that Pole Position is still such a great game and a blast to play. Gotta Love It!"

 

[Charles Kline]

Proportionally speaking, a PP boardset doesn't really generate that much more heat than any other boardset (i.e., it's doubled, as there are two boards, but it isn't any more than that, and it is spread out over twice the surface area).

You could certainly get away with not using a cage if you didn't have one, especially for light home use. But if you have a cage, AND you're going to run it with a fan, that's a better solution. But if no fan, you'd be better off without the cage.

I would argue that the Namco customs get much warmer than typical ICs but I didn't do any scientific research... would be interesting to compare temps and power draw to other boards.

 

[andrewb]

I would argue that the Namco customs get much warmer than typical ICs but I didn't do any scientific research... would be interesting to compare temps and power draw to other boards.

Sure, but other boards have chips on them that get plenty hot too. The bitslicers on Battlezones and Tempest boards are nearly scorching.

But the bottom line is that all of these double boardsets draw around 4-5 amps, give or take. It varies per game and even board, depending on the exact brands of chips used. (I monitor all of them when I run them on my bench to debug the logic, using a bench supply where I can see the draw.)

PP is on the upper end because it's two full boards, but that heat is also spread out over more space. So cooling wise there isn't really anything that special about PP's compared to other boards, and none of the chips are particularly more heat-sensitive than any others.

If you're going to be running one on location for long hours, you might want to think about cooling a little more. But for light home use it's less critical.

 

[MasterFygar]

Sure, but other boards have chips on them that get plenty hot too. The bitslicers on Battlezones and Tempest boards are nearly scorching.

But the bottom line is that all of these double boardsets draw around 4-5 amps, give or take. It varies per game and even board, depending on the exact brands of chips used. (I monitor all of them when I run them on my bench to debug the logic, using a bench supply where I can see the draw.)

PP is on the upper end because it's two full boards, but that heat is also spread out over more space. So cooling wise there isn't really anything that special about PP's compared to other boards, and none of the chips are particularly more heat-sensitive than any others.

If you're going to be running one on location for long hours, you might want to think about cooling a little more. But for light home use it's less critical.

You seem (unsurprisingly) very well versed in these boards... what are your thoughts on "bulletproofing" these? Mine had the mod done before I got it and it's miraculously never died in the decade I've had it, but I'd curious to hear the opinion of someone more knowledgeable on the risks vs rewards of the mod in the long term.

 

[andrewb]

You seem (unsurprisingly) very well versed in these boards... what are your thoughts on "bulletproofing" these? Mine had the mod done before I got it and it's miraculously never died in the decade I've had it, but I'd curious to hear the opinion of someone more knowledgeable on the risks vs rewards of the mod in the long term.

If it's working, leave it alone. If the 5V mod is already there to bypass the edge connector, leave it. However you can get away without it, if you just clean your edge connector every couple of years. But if it's already there, it won't hurt anything.

Other than that, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Eventually the sockets will probably corrode and you'll get issues, in which case you'll want to remove all socketed chips, clean the legs, deoxit, and reseat. But I wouldn't do that until there's actually a problem, as you're more likely to cause one otherwise. The legs, especially on the customs, like to rust and break. So you're likely going to need to repair some if/when you remove the chips.

Just keep it clean, dry, and cool. Those are the three keys to minimizing board failures.

 

[Iggy]

Ha! I upgraded everything!

For pics see my Pole Position resto page:

"The only Pole Position Upright Multikit in the world with a brake and gas pedal! Also has the cockpit metal racetrack sign and ALL NOS parts including the entire NOS Steering wheel assembly, the entire NOS shifter, the entire NOS gas pedal and NOS brake assembly. NOS dash board, NOS control panel overlay, NOS dash sticker, and a NOS backdoor sheet. Over 50 NOS Parts installed. Has both Pole Position 1 & 2 boardsets easily swappable through the coindoor. Both boardsets were repaired by Mark in the UK with all new sockets, and the battery replaced with NVram to hold the high scores for ever. Both ARII boards were recapped, also new TIP32's and LM305's. The sense mod was also done on both. The power brick was repainted and has new fuses holders, new fuses and a new bridge rectifier. I tapped into the +5 and Ground on the harness and ran it to each of the test point tabs on the CPU and Video boards as well. This is swappable with the edge connector when changing boardsets. A hand made Cowl Induction system with 2 new fans was constructed to keep the boardsets cool. A fan was also placed into the backdoor for better circulation. This keeps the inside of the cabinet at a relatively cool 90 degrees. A donor Pole Position cab supplied the back door, the wood piece above the back door and a small piece by the gas pedal. A new monitor was installed and a new cardboard monitor bezel was made. New speakers, new marquee light bulb, new ballast, new starter, new T-molding, new easy slide leg levelers, new power cord, new coin mechs, new coin door light bulbs, new red plastic coin eject buttons, new Atari logo's, new locks, new nuts & bolts & screws were also installed. The marquee and glass bezel are original and in excellent shape. The side art is nice and complete with a few scratches here and there. All metal parts were nylon bead blasted and repainted black. A power strip was installed inside the coindoor to power the fans, the monitor, a small nightlight to help see when swapping the boardsets, and the main power for the game. This has been a 4 year project and has cost me more than I care to admit. Oh well, what's done is done. I'm just glad that Pole Position is still such a great game and a blast to play. Gotta Love It!"

Given the condition mine is in, I just want you to know that while it's not personal... I feckin' hate you for this post.

 

[keithsarcade]

So it seems the majority is for keeping the cage. Would you add ventilation holes to the side?

 

[andrewb]

So it seems the majority is for keeping the cage. Would you add ventilation holes to the side?

No.

Heat rises. Put a fan on the top or bottom, to move air across the board. Use the cage as a wind tunnel, as others have mentioned.

Or just put a fan at the top of the cabinet, blowing up. That will pull air through the whole cabinet, and over everything in it. The heat then goes up and out the top of the cab, cooling everything inside, not just the PCB. However that's only really needed if you're going to be running the cab long hours, on location or the like.

 

[Brentradio]

Given the condition mine is in, I just want you to know that while it's not personal... I feckin' hate you for this post.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I sold it and lost a ton on money on it and still miss it to this day.

So go turn yours on and play a game or two for me.

 

[D_Harris]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I sold it and lost a ton on money on it and still miss it to this day.

So go turn yours on and play a game or two for me.

Can you give specifics on how you switched between two board-sets in two cages? I assume you cut the AC first, but was switching between games a matter of pulling connectors apart and putting them together, or did you rig everything to switches?

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.