Playchoice 10 issue

CraZy Muffin

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FIXED: Playchoice 10 graphics issue

So I finally decided to pull out my old Playchoice 10 project.

I was in the middle of putting together a PC10 (single monitor board) to JAMMA connector, but I couldn't get it working properly with my converter.

When I had someone test the board in a working cab, they said the CPU chip was bad.

I ordered 2 replacement chips, but while waiting for them to arrive, I put the project aside and forgot about it for a couple years.


I pulled it out yesterday, and I took a good look at it. I also found a proper manual for the thing, which had the edge-connector pinout. I look back at my old pinouts (which were all slightly different), and well... besides showing -5V where there should be 12V, they were all backwards, parts side vs. solder side.

So my converter was backwards (looking at the board now, it should have been obvious that it was wrong), so I ended up putting 5V into some of the button locations, ooops.


Anyway, I took last night to flip around the connectors, added on all of the button wires, replaced the CPU, and plugged it in.

And it boots up fine!

However, there is a slight issue with it. So far I have tested Elevator Action (in a Tennis cart) and Zelda (in a Rad Racer) and both exhibit a similar problem, only Zelda is worse.

When starting the game, everything seems normal. But a few seconds after starting the game, the screen starts jumping a little bit, some garbage graphics blink on the screen. With elevator action, it seems like whenever an elevator is moving on screen, it blinks constantly. And with Zelda, well... it has some blinking garbage, and when trying to move to a new screen, it usually crashes/freezes and resets the main board, going back to the main menu.

Does the 5V line need to be adjusted? or is there is bigger problem going on with the board.

I have a couple more carts I can test, but I would rather not risk them if I dont have to.

Thanks...

EDIT: also, the service menu tests all say OK. and I tested all buttons and they work great. so I am just having this graphical issue.
 
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You probably didn't fry anything with the 5v, because all the switches run on 5 volt anyways. Are you sure you didn't hook the 12volt to anything, however?

When your friend decided it had a bad cpu chip, how did he know that, and, did you ever replace it?
 
good to know i didnt kill anything with the 5v. I know I didnt put 12v to anything, the pins on the parts/solder side of the 12v hookup are the same.

It was actually someone on the boards here that did it for me, been too long so I dont remember who, but they said they popped in a CPU and it worked great.

Yes, I did replace it on my own last night.

Also as a quick update... The audio connector on the Mikes Arcade video inverter board/sound amp board had a faulty connection, so I just soldered the wires directly to the pins. For some reason this also seems to have fixed the graphics issues, atleast for the present.

Maybe I bumped something back into place, or maybe the problem was tied to the audio, but not sure how that could be.
 
so the problem isn't gone after all.

Played a little bit, and the random blinking graphics started to come back, but I just tapped lightly on the cart I was playing and it went away.

Is it the connecter? do they need to be cleaned or something? can they even be cleaned?
 
Sounds like the connector to me, definately. Look close at the solder joints on it too, maybe you've got a bad solder joint on (one of) the connectors. Also try swapping the board to a different spot.
 
Problems with every cart / every slot

alright, so.. I tested all my carts, a mix of original ROMs and non-official games. They all have similar issues in any slot. so something is up with the board...

The issues are consistent with each particular game, such as elevator action, the screen blinks/jumps to different positions of the background ONLY when the elevators are moving.

SMB is the game that works the best so far, it was having no issues at all until level 8 (used the warp tubes), then right away it started flashing a little garbage in the clouds, and starting playing in slow motion on and off, was really bad... got my killed

Why was it playing in slow motion....

EDIT: I checked the solder joins on the board connector and cart connector, they look great... not sure what else I should be looking at.
 
Sorry man, it's probably got a bad solder joint on a ram chip or something. I don't know of anybody that works on them, but you might try Channelmaniac and see if he's interested in giving it a shot.
 
So it turned out to be the +5v after all! I cleaned/reseated all the chips, but it was exactly the same... so I started playing with the voltage again, and WOW was it off...

Apparently the board is only happy below 4.7v (all the way to the minimum of 4.4v), reading on the board edge connector.

All of the graphic glitches seem to be gone from the game, and MOST of the lag seems to be gone. (although there is some lag still on really busy screens)


Does anyone have any experience with the voltage on these boards? If you have a playchoice single monitor (or dual), where is your +5v at?

I know some of my other games are really picky on the voltage, but I have never had one want to be so low.
 
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mostly just subscribing to thread, but is your meter nice enough to trust the voltage reading? Also have you changed your meter's battery lately? Once I was getting low readings and finally found it to be a low battery in my meter.
 
It's a Fluke 117.

I am pretty sure it's accurate, although not sure about battery... it has lasted quite a while so far. Guess I should check it sometime.

no matter, the voltage reading seems to be spot on to the power supply 5v adjustment, when at 5v reading, the adjustment is in the middle and the LED light is green.

Where the playchoice board is happy, the LED is a sickly yellow (can even turn the adjustment to minimum and it still works great)
 
I'm pretty sure my Playchoice (single) is nearly spot-on 5V. Sometimes I swap a VS board into the cabinet.

I'm still a newb with switch-mode power supplies, but I would speculate that the problem is there. Perhaps the input or output filter caps have dried out or leaked. I think it was mentioned in another thread that there is an "ICC" adjustment on the power supply for adjusting current (current limiting? I don't know). I've never really looked at mine.

Is the voltage always the same, even when the glitches are present?
 
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So the problem wasnt completely fixed by lowering the 5v... the garbage on screen still comes back randomly. I played all of SMB3 and it worked great (6 hours+), then later played a little elevator action, and it worked great until the 3rd level. Then it started messing up again.

I tried going back to SMB3, and it was all messed up too. Tried some other games, same thing.

The only thing I could do to fix it was to bring the +5v back up to around normal, then drop it back down to 4.6v and the problem went away.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
I asked a friend of mine, and he speculated it could be a bad chip.

Do you have an EPROM burner? If so, you could run an NES test program (same one used at Nintendo service centers). This would reveal the problem if it's in the PPU or VRAM. If it's not clear, take a pictures of the glitches and I'll point it out. This might work with a game, but it would be much harder to tell.

Are the glitches dynamic, like changing constantly, or are they stable?
 
unfortunately I dont have a EPROM burner, been meaning to get one and try it out...

The glitches are stable (consistent) for each specific game. I can probably take some video of them next time they show up.

Elevator action: the background of the building "jumps" up and down, but only when an elevator moves.

Zelda: some light garbage flashing on the screen, and when you try and change to a new screen it freezes.

SMB3: complete garbage all over the screen.

all the other games have similar issues that are always the same.
 
in addition to the graphics issues, when the voltage is at 5v, the pitch of the sounds/music increases (sounds too high pitch) AND all of the games lag when there is a couple sprites on the screen.

When at a lower voltage the sounds/music are lower in pitch and sound about normal. The games do not lag unless there are a ton of sprites and all shooting stuff at the same time.

Related issue? maybe...
 
That is interesting, the sound is 100% digital and created in the NES' CPU (RP2A03). The only way I know of to increase the audio pitch would be to send a faster clock to the CPU. The same clock also runs the PPU, but a CPU problem alone could create graphical glitches as well. Maybe something is wrong with the crystal (X3) or buffer (74S04 @ 2G), or the CPU.
 
That is interesting, the sound is 100% digital and created in the NES' CPU (RP2A03). The only way I know of to increase the audio pitch would be to send a faster clock to the CPU. The same clock also runs the PPU, but a CPU problem alone could create graphical glitches as well. Maybe something is wrong with the crystal (X3) or buffer (74S04 @ 2G), or the CPU.

Is there anything I can do to test these? Should I try replacing?

I would rather try to get it working myself, but maybe it's best to just pay someone who knows what they are doing : oP
 
Is there anything I can do to test these? Should I try replacing?

I would rather try to get it working myself, but maybe it's best to just pay someone who knows what they are doing : oP

It depends if you are able to desolder parts without damaging the board, and if you consider it a hassle to locate/order replacement parts.

I would try replacing the 74S04 (or whatever type of 74x04 there) that's connected to the crystal (the 21.47727Mhz one), but after checking the voltage on it's VCC/GND pins when it's running. Maybe also replacing the crystal, but I would need to find out if it's a parallel or series-cut.
 
Did you ever figure out this issue? Would a crystal cause graphic problems in the menu startup screen?
 
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