Pinbot tilt issue

[morphis72]

I'm having an issue with my Pinbot tilting. The game plays normally, is set to the factory default for tilt, and while the ball is in play I can shake the machine a reasonable amount without tilting. However, if I lose the ball and hit the flippers while I am waiting for the next ball to kick out into the launcher the game tilts, "all data lost." Anyone seen this before or know what I need to do to correct this?

 

[viperrwk]

Is it tilting or is it resetting? A tilt should allow a game to continue and show "TILT" on the display whereas a reset will put the machine into attract mode. Guessing it is a reset and if so, this sort of problem is usually either a voltage issue on the power supply, issue in the switch matrix or problem with diodes on the flippers.

Check the voltages at the test points on the CPU board and run the single switch test to make sure that ghost switches don't register during test. If those all check out then likely a problem with the diodes on the flippers.

viperrwk

 

[morphis72]

Is it tilting or is it resetting? A tilt should allow a game to continue and show "TILT" on the display whereas a reset will put the machine into attract mode.
viperrwk

Says TILT in the score window - pinbot voice says, 'all data lost' but if there are balls left the game continues it just doesn't or stops calculating bonus points.

 

[viperrwk]

Does it tilt with just both flippers being flipped or just one and if one which one? Does it do it with any balls locked and if so where is the ball locked? You probably have a bad switch/switch diode which is triggering the tilt switch as part of a "magic rectangle". Since there are four different tilt switches in the machine, you need to track down the specific circumstance which causes the tilt.

For more info on how the switch matrix works and how phantom switch closures can happen, this page has good info and a video explaining it in detail:

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/.../146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

viperrwk

 

[morphis72]

Does it tilt with just both flippers being flipped or just one and if one which one? Does it do it with any balls locked and if so where is the ball locked? You probably have a bad switch/switch diode which is triggering the tilt switch as part of a "magic rectangle". Since there are four different tilt switches in the machine, you need to track down the specific circumstance which causes the tilt.

For more info on how the switch matrix works and how phantom switch closures can happen, this page has good info and a video explaining it in detail:

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/.../146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

viperrwk

I will have to test to give you answers tomorrow. Oddly the gremlins in my Pinbot seem to be multiplying. So, in case they are related I wanted to mention them. I played a few games this evening and the drop targets stopped working. I opened the game up and nothing looked burned, felt jammed or was obviously wrong. I ran it in test mode and could hear the drop targets trying to work but it didn't. After poking at it for a few minutes it seemed to self correct and start working again. Also, when I powered the game on I got several knocks and a message that said, 'Switch 40 adjust ramp.'

 

[Matt1999]

Pinbot tilt

Be sure to check the slam switch's and adjust them if necessary. If you have items sitting in the coin box area, the slam switch on the coin door could brush up against it and cause it to trigger during some movement.
I presume it's not the tilt plum bob because it usually gives you a tilt warning first.
I had reset issues on my pinbot and replaced the bridge rectifiers and capacitor with the "Rectifier board Williams Sys 3-11A #5040-09051-RC ". Marcos sells it but it is also sold at other places. It helped fix a lot of the weird issues that I had.

Matt

 

[viperrwk]

I will have to test to give you answers tomorrow. Oddly the gremlins in my Pinbot seem to be multiplying. So, in case they are related I wanted to mention them. I played a few games this evening and the drop targets stopped working. I opened the game up and nothing looked burned, felt jammed or was obviously wrong. I ran it in test mode and could hear the drop targets trying to work but it didn't. After poking at it for a few minutes it seemed to self correct and start working again. Also, when I powered the game on I got several knocks and a message that said, 'Switch 40 adjust ramp.'

Did the drop targets not register and not reset or were they simply not resetting? You could have an issue with the power supply as Matt suggests with the header pins. Very common for them to crack and have bad/intermittent connection https://www.instagram.com/p/BQ_fzTmjyVa/

The knocking you hear when you power on the machine is an operator alert telling you a switch has not registered a hit in 20 games. This could be either a further indication of a switch problem or simply poor playing

Is there/has there been any battery leakage on the MPU?

viperrwk

 

[morphis72]

Did the drop targets not register and not reset or were they simply not resetting? You could have an issue with the power supply as Matt suggests with the header pins. Very common for them to crack and have bad/intermittent connection https://www.instagram.com/p/BQ_fzTmjyVa/

The knocking you hear when you power on the machine is an operator alert telling you a switch has not registered a hit in 20 games. This could be either a further indication of a switch problem or simply poor playing

Is there/has there been any battery leakage on the MPU?

viperrwk

I scored over 3 million the other night so I doubt the switch had just been missed.

No acid damage / a previous owner converted to remote battery box so good to go there.

Yes - the drop targets were not resetting. I examened them from underneath and manually reset them a few times then they just started working again.

Also, I don't beliveve this is related but the bank of blue lights that opens the multi ball part of the game doesn't work. I traced the wires back to the pin on the system 11 board and I am not getting 6.3v on the pin at the board. I'm sure this is just a transistor, diode or resistor. I am pretty sure I can sort that out. I have never troubleshot a switch matrix before though so I'm hoping it's a power issue like you guys have suggested. I can swap caps and fix cold solder no problem.

 

[morphis72]

Be sure to check the slam switch's and adjust them if necessary. If you have items sitting in the coin box area, the slam switch on the coin door could brush up against it and cause it to trigger during some movement.
I presume it's not the tilt plum bob because it usually gives you a tilt warning first.
I had reset issues on my pinbot and replaced the bridge rectifiers and capacitor with the "Rectifier board Williams Sys 3-11A #5040-09051-RC ". Marcos sells it but it is also sold at other places. It helped fix a lot of the weird issues that I had.

Matt

Thanks! I will double check this and try swapping the bridge rectifiers.

 

[morphis72]

Be sure to check the slam switch's and adjust them if necessary. If you have items sitting in the coin box area, the slam switch on the coin door could brush up against it and cause it to trigger during some movement.
I presume it's not the tilt plum bob because it usually gives you a tilt warning first.
I had reset issues on my pinbot and replaced the bridge rectifiers and capacitor with the "Rectifier board Williams Sys 3-11A #5040-09051-RC ". Marcos sells it but it is also sold at other places. It helped fix a lot of the weird issues that I had.

Matt

Ordered the rectifier board. Looks like even if it isn't the fix it's still a decent upgrade. Thanks!

 

[calvin12]

I will have to test to give you answers tomorrow. Oddly the gremlins in my Pinbot seem to be multiplying. So, in case they are related I wanted to mention them. I played a few games this evening and the drop targets stopped working. I opened the game up and nothing looked burned, felt jammed or was obviously wrong. I ran it in test mode and could hear the drop targets trying to work but it didn't. After poking at it for a few minutes it seemed to self correct and start working again. Also, when I powered the game on I got several knocks and a message that said, 'Switch 40 adjust ramp.'

Hate to be the bearer of possible bad news, this is a switch matrix issue. That in itself is not a huge issue. The bigger issue is this is often caused by better leakage on the boards. Check your batteries, check the boards for damage (even if the batteries are OK, there could be old damage that has gotten worse).
Hopefully not the issue but check that to rule it out.

 

[morphis72]

Hate to be the bearer of possible bad news, this is a switch matrix issue. That in itself is not a huge issue. The bigger issue is this is often caused by better leakage on the boards. Check your batteries, check the boards for damage (even if the batteries are OK, there could be old damage that has gotten worse).
Hopefully not the issue but check that to rule it out.

No visible damage on the board but I have not pulled it out and looked at the back of the board. Someone moved the battery to a wired remote pack...

 

[morphis72]

Does it tilt with just both flippers being flipped or just one and if one which one? Does it do it with any balls locked and if so where is the ball locked? You probably have a bad switch/switch diode which is triggering the tilt switch as part of a "magic rectangle". Since there are four different tilt switches in the machine, you need to track down the specific circumstance which causes the tilt.

For more info on how the switch matrix works and how phantom switch closures can happen, this page has good info and a video explaining it in detail:

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/.../146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

viperrwk

So, I did some additional testing. It's only the left flipper that does it and only if the ball is not in play. Right flipper is okay all the time. I couldn't get it to fail.

Also the ramp switch it keeps wanting me to adjust - It appears to be the switch at the back of the ramp that lifts up when the drop targets are hit. It does register a hit though when I pulled the glass off and tossed a ball at it.

So, left flipper causes a tilt, Ramp on the left is claiming issues at game start up, and the drop targets that trigger the ramp to pop up have had intermittent issues.

You are thinking all these issues are tied together?

 

[viperrwk]

I do not think all your issues are tied together. It appears you have several different issues.

For the phantom tilt, the machine thinks that the playfield tilt (switch 9) is being activated when you have two balls in the trough and hit the left flipper switch. This scenario is forming a magic rectangle (square) with switches 9, 10, 17 & 18. One of the three closed switches (10, 17 or 18) is causing the problem with a failed diode. You need to check and test the diodes on these switches to find out which one has failed and replace it.

For the ramp switch, have you tested it in game or in diagnostics to make sure it is registering a hit. Normally, if you have a bad switch notification and then that switch is activated in game, it clears the notification. I don't believe this is related to your tilt issue because the switch is too far "away" in the matrix to be part of that problem. If you can't get the alert to clear when you know for sure the switch has registered, you may have some other problem.

For the intermittent target reset, you have some type of power problem. I'd carefully inspect the connections to the solenoid and make sure that you have power to solenoids upstream and downstream of the target reset (this assumes you have tested and have no problems with the target switches themselves.)

Lastly, for the blue lights on the chest plate, do the "Shoot Again", "Score Energy" (under the left ramp) and "Score Energy Value" (in front of the left ramp) light as well in the lamp test? This will tell you whether or not you have a column driver problem or a wiring problem.

viperrwk