Pin Knowledge - Battery Mod

eh97ac

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Trying to wrap my head around the Pin universe. I cannot believe all the info and all the pin BLING!

LED kits, Toppers, Sub-woofer ads-ons....wow

I was looking at Pinlogic (www.pin-logic.com), specifically the SIMTEK CLAIM OF 99 YEAR MEMORY RETENTION. Other than eliminating the need for batteries, does if offer something else?

I ask b/c I think the standard battery mod is pretty easy to perform.
 
This is a plug and play mod. That is what it offers.


There are tons of pin collectors, but in my experience most are incapable of performing any work on their machines. This requires no soldering and may appeal to those people. Another reason is many people consider battery mods to be "hacks" and don't want to alter their machine. This mod can be changed back to original in a few minutes with no need for special parts.
 
The biggest thing is the elimination of batteries. Given how many boards are damaged/destroyed by alkaline leakage, anything to get these out of your machine is a good idea.

There's a lot of methods to cure the battery corrosion problem, this is just one of them.
 
Trying to wrap my head around the Pin universe. I cannot believe all the info and all the pin BLING!

LED kits, Toppers, Sub-woofer ads-ons....wow

I was looking at Pinlogic (www.pin-logic.com), specifically the SIMTEK CLAIM OF 99 YEAR MEMORY RETENTION. Other than eliminating the need for batteries, does if offer something else?

I ask b/c I think the standard battery mod is pretty easy to perform.

Sure it's easy to perform but then you're changing batteries every year. NVRAM is definitely the way to go. I'll never use batteries again (other than TZ :))

EDIT: In about 2 weeks I'm going to be launching PinForge.com where I'll be selling a bunch of pinball related boards including NVRAM adapters. Including 6264/2064 which to my knowledge no one else is currently offering.
 
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Sure it's easy to perform but then you're changing batteries every year. NVRAM is definitely the way to go. I'll never use batteries again (other than TZ :))

EDIT: In about 2 weeks I'm going to be launching PinForge.com where I'll be selling a bunch of pinball related boards including NVRAM adapters. Including 6264/2064 which to my knowledge no one else is currently offering.

From my limited research on RGP, NVRAM is not a viable option for WPC era games because of some technical stuff I don't remember right now. Is that correct? I ask since you mention TZ being the only one you will use batteries in.

Thanks
 
From my limited research on RGP, NVRAM is not a viable option for WPC era games because of some technical stuff I don't remember right now. Is that correct? I ask since you mention TZ being the only one you will use batteries in.

Thanks

You can definitely use NVRAM in WPC games. The only problem is that you lose the real time clock function and with TZ there is a clock on the playfield which will show the current time so I chose to not use NVRAM in TZ. At some point in the future I might switch it over. I have a friend who is running a Simtek in his TZ with no problems other than the clock not being accurate.

Another problem is that the RAM is not socketed on WPC MPUs and most people are not willing to take an iron to a perfectly working board just to eliminate the batteries. Maybe to install a remote battery holder but removing the RAM and installing a socket is a little more involved.

I've had early reports that my 5101 adapter works in Defender vids so I might even cross over to selling stuff in the vid market. I know the 6116 adapters will be useful for a lot of high score save hacks.

:D

/thread hijack
 
Another reason is many people consider battery mods to be "hacks" and don't want to alter their machine. This mod can be changed back to original in a few minutes with no need for special parts.

Interesting, I keep forgetting about the matching #'s type collectors.

Lindsey....can't wait:)
 
I would switch every pin I have over to NVRAM in a heart beat. Freaking batteries were a TERRIBLE idea. How long has NVRAM been around? What would NVRAM cost them VS using a battery holder?
Interesting read:
http://www.parts4pinballs.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=9&products_id=4442
Notice how it mentions "won't keep time."

I was going to say that my prices will be right in line with what Tom is selling them for but I checked his site and it looks like they've gone up by a few bucks so mine should be a little cheaper. I suspect this is because the supply of cheap Ramton parts has dried up and he's eventually going to run out of stock. The DIP package parts especially. I use SOIC parts on mine and was able to buy a fairly large supply. I'm hoping to score another large lot next month. If that happens we'll definitely see some cheaper NVRAM adapters available and hopefully from "mainstream" sources. The SOIC packages are more of a pain to solder than the DIP parts but work better for the RAMs with .600" width packages (6116, 6264/2046, etc...).

I also talked to Terry (Pinball Life) at expo about re-selling my boards and he was interested. I'm not going to say they will be available from Terry because we have not discussed it any further but if he wants to re-sell them that will drive the price down even further because he'll be shipping within the U.S. and I'll be selling them to him in bulk at a discount.

Here's an example of one installed in DE Star Wars:
http://warpzonearcade.com/?p=532

So now that I've sales pitched myself into a COMPLETE thread hijack I'll answer the pricing question.

There's no doubt that an NVRAM mod is going to cost more than a battery holder mod. I talked to Tim Arnold about this while I was at the pinball hall of fame (gave him some boards) and he mentioned that's why he hadn't switched to NVRAM in all of his games. He can buy a lot of batteries for what it would cost to use NVRAM. In the case of home hobbyist it's a little easier pill to swallow because they're not necessarily going to be in the backbox of their games as much as Tim and it's easier to shell out a bit of dough for a few games vs. 100+ games.

Let's say you can get an NVRAM for $25. That's $25 spent and you pretty much don't have to worry about that problem ever again (assuming you've got a good socket, etc...).

On the other hand you can get a battery holder and some batteries for less than $5. Assume a couple bucks per year for batteries and it could take 10+ years for that NVRAM to "pay for itself". So the NVRAM is definitely not the most cost effective option right out of the gate.

There are benefits beyond dollars and cents, however. You don't have to worry about the batteries going dead or leaking. Another benefit is that you could pull the RAM and put it in another game or if you had an MPU problem requiring you to replace the MPU your scores and adjustments would come along with the RAM.

You'll also lose the clock on WPC games as Deadly mentioned and I mentioned above in the TZ example.
 
You can definitely use NVRAM in WPC games. The only problem is that you lose the real time clock function and with TZ there is a clock on the playfield which will show the current time so I chose to not use NVRAM in TZ. At some point in the future I might switch it over. I have a friend who is running a Simtek in his TZ with no problems other than the clock not being accurate.

Another problem is that the RAM is not socketed on WPC MPUs and most people are not willing to take an iron to a perfectly working board just to eliminate the batteries. Maybe to install a remote battery holder but removing the RAM and installing a socket is a little more involved.

I've had early reports that my 5101 adapter works in Defender vids so I might even cross over to selling stuff in the vid market. I know the 6116 adapters will be useful for a lot of high score save hacks.

:D

/thread hijack

Gotcha. So, another loss would be games that have the Midnight Madness Multiball. They would have no way to know it was midnight and to kick in. I'm all for eliminating batteries. Anything for Whitestar system planned?
 
Gotcha. So, another loss would be games that have the Midnight Madness Multiball. They would have no way to know it was midnight and to kick in. I'm all for eliminating batteries. Anything for Whitestar system planned?

Good point. Yes, that would also be a problem.

The Sega/Stern Whitestar system uses a 6116 or 6264 RAM and I've got adapters for both of those so I will have options for those games. I can't comment on whether it's socketed or not. I'll take a look at my South Park tonight and if it's socketed I'll drop one in and see how it works.

Sega/Stern Whitestar games:
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mpu=33

The newer Stern system (LOTR, etc...) uses a big-assed RAM which could even be an SOIC part. If it's a DIP part I could put something together but it would be substantially more expensive given that I would need to use a larger F-RAM. I'm thinking the price would make it not work pursuing.
 
Good point. Yes, that would also be a problem.

The Sega/Stern Whitestar system uses a 6116 or 6264 RAM and I've got adapters for both of those so I will have options for those games. I can't comment on whether it's socketed or not. I'll take a look at my South Park tonight and if it's socketed I'll drop one in and see how it works.

Sega/Stern Whitestar games:
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mpu=33

The newer Stern system (LOTR, etc...) uses a big-assed RAM which could even be an SOIC part. If it's a DIP part I could put something together but it would be substantially more expensive given that I would need to use a larger F-RAM. I'm thinking the price would make it not work pursuing.

I don't own one, but I think SAM system games use lithium cells, so there is way less risk on them, mostly. I want to get the batteries out of my BSD and TSPP, so I'm in.
 
Sure it's easy to perform but then you're changing batteries every year. NVRAM is definitely the way to go. I'll never use batteries again (other than TZ :))

EDIT: In about 2 weeks I'm going to be launching PinForge.com where I'll be selling a bunch of pinball related boards including NVRAM adapters. Including 6264/2064 which to my knowledge no one else is currently offering.


I would so love to see some more nvram mods. Batteries are easy to change, but somethings you get bad batteries, or you forget!!

So far I have one in my D&D pin, but want more for other pins. I cant wait to see what you have!
 
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