Painting Question - How do you remove stencils wet, with multiple coats?

mcgolfpro

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Painting Question - How do you remove stencils wet, with multiple coats?

I have a question about the timing of removing stencils. I am doing a Defender Restore:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=125726

I have a set of one use stencils from gamestencils.com I have read the directions and my question is in regards to the timing of removing the stencil.

Many people have written to remove the stencil before the paint dries completely, the stencil guide recommends the paint be at the "barely tacky stage" to get crisp lines upon removal. However, my assumption is that especially with the final yellow coat, it will take multiple coats to cover the black and red completely. If I allow each coat to dry before applying a new coat how will I remove the stencil with the first layers of paint still wet or "tacky" enough to keep from getting a rough edge or flaking upon removal?

Also does anyone have any recomendations of oil based vs. latex or rattle can (krylon) vs. latex through a preval sprayer?

My plan was to prime, sand smooth, base coat of black rolled and then sanded and finished with krylon satin black, and then use custom matching colors for the red and yellow, thinned using a preval sprayer.

Would love to hear from some of you guys who have already done some stenciled cabs...Thanks!
 
Here's what I did:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=160029

You must spray VERY thin coats. If it builds up too thickly, runs, etc.. it will look like ass. I have screwed up, sanded down, and redone stenciling and learned the hard way. Over the black and red, you should mist the first yellow coat. Wait 10min, spray a very thin coat. It will definitely not fill in the color to opaque and look solid.

Wait 10 or so minutes, spray another thin coat. If you spray up and down pattern on one coat, do back and forth on the next, etc.. Wait 10 or so minutes and spray a 3rd very thin coat. If the color has become even and opaque, then STOP. 3 coats may do it, but I did not need more than 4, with that 1st being an uneven mist coat.

Keep in mind whatever WE do, the factory coat was lacquer and sprayed as thinly as possible to get the look. The factory colors are often a tiny bit transparent. After the 'last' coat, wait 10 min or so, and the paint will still be tacky, then pull the stencils.

I highly recommend that you do each phase of the painting on a scrap piece of plywood, 1 by 2ft or something. You can make practice stencils by taping off and area with masking tape.

Before you paint the base black on the cabinet, paint that scrap piece, prepped exactly like your cabinet (primer and all). If you're satisfied with how the paint went on, paint the base coat on the cabinet.

When it's time to do the red layer, make a stencil or mask off an area on the now black scrap piece. Spray your red coats, one very thin coat at a time. Pull your stencil/masking - see if you like how it turned out. If so, do the cabinet. So on and so forth..saved me some trouble, helps determine that the paint is thinned well, the sprayer is set OK, and helps with the confidence.
 
+1, a few thin coats is they key. Don't try and get a solid colour on the first pass, especially if you are painting red and yellow (two of the most translucent colours) over black. Build up the colour over a few thin passes, with drying time in between. Your last coat can be a bit thicker if you want a glossier finish, spray until the paint starts to gloss up and look wet, then STOP.

I would definitely check how well your red and yellow paints go over the black, they might end up looking quite dark.

Weather makes a difference too. Don't spray if it's too cold, or too hot. Humidity makes a difference as well, avoid painting if the relative humidity is over 80%.

- James
 
I did what Rikitiki recommended when spraying the red over black.
I first sprayed a light layer of yellow then went onto the red for the final coats.
It took less paint than just spraying red alone to get good coverage and color.
 
The single best answer is to use lacquers, crisp lines are no problem at all with those.

For spray paints like Krylon with light colors over dark I use a white spray auto primer just to break the darker color, then a couple really light coats of your final color and remove the stencils before the color dries completely. NEVER use those 'fast drying' paints. The only thing that dries fast is the very surface so even though its dry to the touch it has not adhered yet and will likely peel with the stencil.

I trust the rust oleum brand pretty much, works well.
 
The single best answer is to use lacquers, crisp lines are no problem at all with those.

I trust the rust oleum brand pretty much, works well.

I'm assuming this is the stuff?:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=109

I'm also assuming that the advantage of lacquer is it's much thinner, more like th original finish? More durable, and makes "timing" of stencil removal less of an issue?

Thanks prOk I have seen some of your work, I like it and I appreciate the advice. Is gamestencils.com your site?

Thanks-

Mike
 
Lacquers are usually high solids so the colors are strong and overpower the color below fairly easily with thin coats.. the other advantage is that they dry VERY fast. Likely before you can even finish painting the right side the left side will already be bone dry. That and lacquer basically melts into itself, so the second color will become one with the first making removing stencils a very easy task.

You can do tinted lacquer from a pro paint store or go with automotive lacquers, they behave very similarly. Many basic colors that are dead on matches for old williams cabs can be found at places like autozone. Some will debate the merits of pro paints vs auto store stuff but at the end of the day you're painting a wooden cabinet not a show car :)

Take a look at my charlie's angels restore in the restoration showcase section for a lacquered cabinet example. And yea, gamestencils is my site.
 
I used Rustoleum Semi gloss black, I rolled 2 coats, sanded down any roller marks then used, preval sprayers to spray on the final coat, I like to lay the cab flat and spray it, that way even if I screw up and apply too much paint on one spot it won't run and or drip, and it all levels out when its flat. Let it sit at least 2 hrs before standing it back up and I think it looks FANTASTIC.

I used rattle cans of krylon for the red and yellow Krylon
Red Pepper, Sun Yellow from ace hardware.

I chose to go with oil based paint, I have only used latex for touch ups on my cabs cause you can get sample pints color matched for a few bucks at the local lowes.

Red should be prety easy, take your time and measure your edges first and make sure its straight, when applying the stencil.

Do not paint in direct sunlight, it makes it almost impossible to tell when you have coverage.

I used almost 2 full cans of each color for my entire Defender to give you an idea how much paint was used. Three coats should be enough maybe a thin fourth for the colors. Don't try to cover it all in 1 or 2 passes, multiple thin coats are better than one or two thick ones.

always test spray the can of paint on a scrap piece of cardboard, not only does it get the paint flowing it lets you know if you have a non dripping nozel, (I had one of those)

I worked slowly, I did one side at a time, allowing dry time in between , example

day one I did side 1 in red
Allowed paint to dry
Day 3 I did front and side 2 in red ect

I did it that way so I could have more control over dry time, I had no idea how long it would take me to remove a side and move to the next one, its a pain in the ass to re tape and cover the rest of the cab, but I had never done stencils before so I chose the cautious approach.

Another tip, pull it when its still wet / tacky but make sure you don't strech the stencil to thin or it will snap / break and fall back onto the paint, (not good as it happened to me) wear disposable gloves when pulling it off, and keep a sharp exacto knife handy to cut the stencil as you remove it if necessary, and a roll of paper towels to wipe the paint off your gloves.
 
Another experience I've had..

Believe it or not, water based/latex finishes have come a LONG way and can produce a great finish. Not to say the finish is close to the lacquers originally used, but it can look close. That said, it's a bit harder to spray.

I've used latex as a base coat and had it come out GREAT. I used latex all the way through my Robotron repaint and although the base pewter turned out awesome and the end result was acceptable, I don't like the latex for the stenciled layers.

Latex seems to have a worse tendency to pull up or tear when removing the stencils. I had NONE of that on my Stargate repaint, using RustOleum sprayed oil based finishes.

If I did the Robotron over, I'd still use the latex based pewter luster finish, but oil based or lacquer for the red and blue.

My favorite work of mine so far, and this was using Rustoleum oil based, gloss, bought in quart cans, sprayed through a gun, thinned 20% with acetone:

IMG_3547.jpg
 
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