P-ball repair guide for those who don't want to torrent ;)

Ken, you're probably right. I like to look at all angles and playing devils advocate here, it was his material and he was able to do as he saw fit.
A personal "for instance" was I created and hosted a flash game based website.
I had ~300+ users. I had a Paypal Donate button and do you know how many donations I got? Exactly ZERO. Out of 3+ years ZERO donations.

Don't get me wrong, I too am guilty of not donating for a few things I use, however I kept my game server running out of pure love and I feel that should be peoples motivation alone not money. But Clays intent was to fund something he was fond of - I can see the merit in that.

I meant no judgment towards anyone sorry if it came across that way.
 
Deadly said:
http://users.esc.net.au/~boots/Pinball_Guides/

Look familiar? :D
Click to expand...

You are promoting illegal activity.

The guy took his guides down and he has every right to. Anyone hosting his content is going to risk having their account shut down, as well as come off like a douche. How would you like it if someone copied your web site and put it up somewhere else without your permission? Don't do stuff like that.
 
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The website might be his, the content in it is not. Repair knowledge is not Intellectual Property. Many others possess the same knowledge, and they may feel free to post it in any way they wish.

I don't really care to get in an argument about legal crap, but I'm pretty sure I never saw a copyright issued for the website or the info it contains.

Now, a clone of a site, or redirect, that's another story.
 
Literally hundreds or maybe thousands of people have the guides downloaded, so whether it's public or not, people can still access them easily.

It's to bad what happened with Clay, I wish him all the positive karma in the world :) I got to meet him at the Seattle show, and he was super nice..
 
quses said:
You are promoting illegal activity.

The guy took his guides down and he has every right to. Anyone hosting his content is going to risk having their account shut down, as well as come off like a douche. How would you like it if someone copied your web site and put it up somewhere else without your permission? Don't do stuff like that.
Click to expand...

Sure he organized and wrote most of it. But, a lot of people contributed to that information as well. That's where things really started to heat up. He took other peoples writings and information and is claiming it all as his own. Then tried to make people pay for it. Even those who contributed. So, is it promoting illegal activity? The other contibuters, some are members of this forum, want their information to be public. So in all reality what he is doing is illegal.

Besides when you have this on your site:

Internet Availability of this Document.
Updates of this document are available for no cost at http://pinrepair.com/fix.htm if you have Internet access. This document is part one of three (part two is here, and part three is here).

...
 
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smalltownguy2 said:
The website might be his, the content in it is not. Repair knowledge is not Intellectual Property. Many others possess the same knowledge, and they may feel free to post it in any way they wish.
Click to expand...

Someone copied his web site/content VERBATIM. That's a violation of his IP.

If you want to write your own guides and publish them, knock yourself out, and if you do, and you can prove it's your original interpretation/compilation, then you can copyright it and control it. That's not what this guy did. Apples and oranges.
 
Cmndr Brain said:
Sure he organized and wrote most of it. But, a lot of people contributed to that information as well. That's where things really started to heat up. He took other peoples writings and information and is claiming it all as his own. Then tried to make people pay for it. Even those who contributed. So, is it promoting illegal activity? The other contibuters, some are members of this forum, want their information to be public. So in all reality what he is doing is illegal.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way. Clay has already addressed the claims that his guides are composed of other peoples work in any significant sense. That myth has been debunked. You can also go back on archive.org and look at the index pages going back 10+ years and see he had "copyright - all rights reserved" a long time ago. Yes people contributed, but the guides were *his compilation* and he claimed ownership of them from the beginning, so nobody else has any claim to the content. If you contributed something to the guides like a paragraph or a picture, go ahead and re-post that on some other site, but it doesn't give you the right to take the other 500 pages of content he wrote and do what you want with it. Plus, the vast majority of the guides is exclusively his writing. Nobody has ever proven they've contributed any significant amount. I contributed some pictures here and there - do I think I own the guides? Nope. I'm happy to help. It's the least I can do because I've taken much more than I've given. I hope the guides will be back up one day and respecting Clay's wishes IMO is one way to ensure they will be.

Plus, it should also be noted that Clay, as far as I or anyone else knows, has never sought to commercially/personally profit from any of the work he's produced. So even if he supposedly appropriated someone else's work (which has *never* been proven), nobody has any case against him. All he did was take his web site down and ask that his content not be published elsewhere.

Nobody knows what he's going to do with the guides. He won't say just yet. I've heard he is re-writing them and making them even better. In the meantime, it doesn't do anybody any good to steal his content and share it with other people. It seems like the decent thing to do is respect the guy's wishes, and hope that he'll share the content again in the future.
 
I was enjoying that site for the last 6 weeks and then everyone started passing it around on KLOV, Pinside, RGP, knew it was going to be short lived once someone spilled the beans.
 
Can I chime in... PinWiki.com has got a lot of pin repair info on it. It is ever growing and I really suggest it, as it isn't an illegal copy of Clays guides.
 
Deadly said:
I don't quite understand why all the frothing over Clay charging? Is a measely $10-$20 these days too much?
Click to expand...

Because it wasn't his to sell. Let's not get into this bullshit again.

The information is out there. It's really easy to find. If you can't repair your game without a direct link to Clay's guide you should sell or burn it.
 
So this is for EM pins.. How about pins from the 80's forward?

Any good docs I should read up on? Planning on getting my first pin shortly (saving for a real nice one).
 
"Support this Pinball Repair Website! (It costs money to provide this information.)
Donations are being accepted, please see PinRepair.com/donate for details,
and/or please purchase the Pinrepair.com/top repair instructional videos."

Now that's the way it should have been handled the whole time. I don't think anyone on this site would argue with that. :beerchug:
 
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