Oscilloscope Reccomendations

Airdorn

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Hi there.

I'm wanting to get into repairs more and I'd be starting on the ground floor. I was wondering what oscilloscopes people here use and recommend. This is just for hobby work, so nothing terribly, terribly expensive!

What would be a great scope for general arcade board repairs?


THANKS!
 
SEARCH: "oscilloscope" :rolleyes:

If you don't do it here on KLOV's search engine, then try GOOGLE -> type in "oscilloscope klov site:forums.arcade-museum.com" ...
 
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Yes, we just had a thread about this, and there are many others. Searching will do you well.

Also, experience is far more useful than a scope for doing repairs, and a logic probe is something you want to get and get familiar with, before getting a scope. Learning basic game architectures, reading schematics, and tracing/probing logic are much more useful in terms of doing repairs, than a scope is.
 
Hi there.

I'm wanting to get into repairs more and I'd be starting on the ground floor. I was wondering what oscilloscopes people here use and recommend. This is just for hobby work, so nothing terribly, terribly expensive!

What would be a great scope for general arcade board repairs?


THANKS!

Congratulation on getting into the wonderful world of repairs...
With the newbies techs at musem of pinball in banning ca.

We normally start them with credit switches. Soldering wires and dealing with heat shrink. I get to see how they follow directions.

Crimping wires and replacing headers make those wire harness gremlin (poor connects issues) a thing of the past.

Learning about power supplies is a must. The basic electrical wiring of a cab comes in handy. Bob Robert's has a diagram on it that should help you..
Learning the difference between linear power supply and switching power supplies is important. A nice digital volt.meter is a.great.thing to have...

Learning about monitors is a must. This includes both crts and lcds and even 3 gun projection. Depending on what arcade machines you collect. There is more to fix a monitor than replacing a cap. An esr meter can tell you if the cap you have is I'm good.condtion or it needs to be replaced. A crt rejuvenator will tell you if the tune your working on is good or not. Crts do go bad after a while..

So on to pcb repairs. Most pcb are very old computers. Cpu, ram, pia and pio. The basics is signal goes in something is suppose to be coming out. A scope will show you what goes in and what goes out.
A logic probe will tell you the presence of a signal but will give you odd reading if the signals are not strong enough. Each chip number represents a differ function.
Is this chip a buffer or an opamp. Knowing what these chips do will help you to determine what signal should be at which pin of the ic chip..

It's a lot to learn and sometimes even when you know what is wrong, you can't fix it due to parts not being available.
 
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Yeah, oops :)

Alright, sorry all... Searching for 'oscilloscope' here on these forums for some reason didn't occur to me.

I've been using a logic probe and volt meter but I get to dead ends with more serious stuff because I need a scope.

I had an old Tek scope that I got in a warehouse raid a while back but it always had various little annoying problems so I never really got into it.

Anyways, thanks for the help!!
 
Depending on what you want to test, IMHO, analog and digital scopes have their place and their own pros and cons.

For vectors, an analog scope is a must.
For logic debug, then go digital.

I have that Rigol ds1054z (modified) and it's a great digi scope for the price.
I have TEK 2465/A/B analog scopes too ... excellent scopes for us full timers. Maybe overkill for a novice.
I have portable Fluke 190 series scopemeter ... not so useful.
Stay away from USB scopes.
 
Depending on what you want to test, IMHO, analog and digital scopes have their place and their own pros and cons.

For vectors, an analog scope is a must.
For logic debug, then go digital.

I have that Rigol ds1054z (modified) and it's a great digi scope for the price.
I have TEK 2465/A/B analog scopes too ... excellent scopes for us full timers. Maybe overkill for a novice.
I have portable Fluke 190 series scopemeter ... not so useful.
Stay away from USB scopes.


I want a scope mainly for vector stuff.

I've watched a few Youtube videos where people are using digital scopes and the screen refresh or whatever it is seems slow and just kind of sluggish... I don't know the right words to use here. But it just looks like the digital stuff just has an underwhelming appearance compared to the good old-fashioned analog sweep.

That Tek 2465 scope looks sweet!
 
Rigol DS1054Z

Not as good as analog, but not bad.
Having YT and XY at the same time is a bonus.

IMG_20160124_165640.jpg
 
Or ... with the right analog scope ... :)

tumblr_nx3xmsocpa1s6w6q7o1_500.gif


(not my pic)

That anim of the properly-setup analog scope is sick! The Z circuit is attached, something you don't ever see!

Thanks again for all the info! I hope to have something next week.
 
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I like my my 1970's Tek scope. It's by main bench scope. But for PCB work, a base model PicoScope works really well. I normally don't like the USB stuff, but PicoScope makes some nice quality stuff and it's more then good enough for arcade work.
For monitor work, I like tossing a differential probe (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Profession...931457?hash=item5892516b41:g:wSMAAOSwgHpa-oQR) in front of the scope. It keeps me from blowing things up.
 
You also don't need Z capability to do repairs. You can diagnose things fine without it.

People spend all sorts of effort to get Tempest looking perfect on their scope, when in reality you can even get by with a digital scope, it doesn't need to be perfect. You basically just need to know if there's a picture there or not, and that the overall geometry is ok, which any scope with XY mode can do.

You can't see enough detail on a 5" screen to really tell if it's 100% perfect (e.g., that all of the small details of the letters are accurate, etc), so you still need to play test it on a real monitor anyway. So the scope just tells you if the outputs are generally ok, and that you're safe enough to connect to a monitor.

If I were to get only one scope, I'd go with the 1054Z. (I have two Tek 2465's, and I still want a 1054Z.)
 
She is a pretty, useful and cost effective scope ... but as discussed in the other thread, there are other contenders out there. For me, I have a ds1054z (mod'd for 100MHz etc) and don't need another or an upgrade ... it's good enough for my needs ...

maxresdefault.jpg


And I agree about the Z output ... when debuggin' a board on the bench I actually want to see the retrace/drawing lines. The general shape is all that matters to confirm the vectors are basically there on the outputs.

But if the OP wants to investigate vectors, then an analog one (a good but affordable model) is best recommended.
 
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Rigol 1054Z

I've been looking into that scope.

What's with the options all being 30 hour trial? After 30 hours of actual usage of a given option, it just stops working? Do you have to pay more to get some kind of license key?
 
Hack it to get 100MHz and features.

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/

http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

DS1000z device options:
DSAB - Advanced Triggers
DSAC - Decoders
DSAE - 24M Memory
DSAJ - Recorder
DSBA - 500uV Vertical
DSEA - 100MHz
The code DSER enables all features except 500uV, which is not supported on the DS1000Z series and will cause erroneous results at this setting.
 
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Hi there.

I'm wanting to get into repairs more and I'd be starting on the ground floor. I was wondering what oscilloscopes people here use and recommend. This is just for hobby work, so nothing terribly, terribly expensive!

What would be a great scope for general arcade board repairs?


THANKS!

I have an HP54600A 100Mhz scope I was getting ready to sell. I bought it a few years ago and never used it. PM me if interested. -Dave
 
Hack it to get 100MHz and features.

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/

http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

DS1000z device options:
DSAB - Advanced Triggers
DSAC - Decoders
DSAE - 24M Memory
DSAJ - Recorder
DSBA - 500uV Vertical
DSEA - 100MHz
The code DSER enables all features except 500uV, which is not supported on the DS1000Z series and will cause erroneous results at this setting.

Just got it today!

Turns out, all the stuff is already active... no trials.

Can't wait to get this scope home and learning about it.

Thanks for the heads up, Vectorcollector.
 
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