FS Parts: NVRAM (Battery Eliminator) for Data East, Williams System 11 & Other

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NVRAM (Battery Eliminator) for Data East, Williams System 11 & Other

Nonvolatile RAM replacement for Williams System 11B/11C & Data East pinball machines that use the 6064, 6264 or 2064 RAM chip. Eliminates the need for batteries to save your configuration / high scores. You'll no longer have to worry about leaking batteries, checking batteries each year or running the machine every few weeks or months to charge a battery backup capacitor.

This NVRAM is a very easy swap-out on Data East Machines. For Williams Machines, the task becomes a bit more difficult. Please read the "More Information" section below for details.

1 adapter $25.00 shipped
2-3 adapters $24.00 each shipped
4-6 adapters $22.50 each shipped
6+ adapters $21.00 each shipped


-- MORE INFORMATION --
On Data East machines, if you look at the board, usually there is silkscreen writing on the board going horizontally with numbers and vertically with letters. The RAM is at position 5-D, right under the game EPROM. From my experience thus far, all Data East MPU boards should have had a socket installed for the RAM from the factory and use either 6064 or 6264 RAM. Always good to double-check there's a socket & that the RAM is 6064, 6264 anyway just to be safe. That means this NVRAM replacement is a very quick replacement on Data East machines. Remove the existing RAM from the socket, remove the batteries, then replace with the NVRAM adapter.

Williams machines are a different story since they don't appear to have used sockets on their RAM chips (saved them money I guess). Instead the RAM is soldered directly to the board, so unless someone's already replaced faulty RAM & installed a socket, installing NVRAM won't be an easy swap-out. If you have a Williams System 11B or System 11C MPU board the existing RAM will either be 6116 or 6264 at "U25".. and if it's 6116 there are jumper changes you can do to the board to convert to 6264 RAM. From my understanding Williams 11A MPU boards (F-14, Fire!, Pin-bot, Millionaire) use 6116 RAM and can't be configured for the 6264 RAM.. Lindsey makes a 6116 NVRAM adapter you can buy at Pinforge.com if you have one of a System 11A board or don't wish to change jumper settings on your System 11B/C boards. Williams WPC also has RAM soldered directly to the board. What does all this mean? Probably that if your game is working perfectly & you have no reason to pull the boards --AND-- unless you *really* hate the idea of remote battery holders it's probably best to just leave the existing RAM & use remote battery holders than disturb the board.

Hope this helps answer questions for everyone. Rule of thumb, Data East = easy swap...... Williams = cut out existing RAM, install socket, install NVRAM (except on System 11A which won't work with this 6264 NVRAM adapter).
 

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Nonvolatile RAM replacement for Williams System 11 & Data East pinball machines that use the 6064, 6264 or 2064 RAM chip.

I take it that this board supports all Williams System 11, i.e., 11, 11A, 11B & 11C? (so my two System 11B games, Earthshaker & Taxi are covered).

Support all Data East? So it would also work on Data East Star Trek (DEST 25)?
 
I've been selling this exact product on this forum and my site for quite a while now. I was also the first to market with 6264 adapters (go ahead and prove me wrong) so you've effectively just copied my existing product and undercut the price. I understand that's called free market economics and I don't hold it against you but I'll just do the same thing.

I'll beat this pricing by 20% for any KLOVer. I also have 6116 and 5101.
 
So what types would I need for a

pinbot, space station, and F-14 - All system 11*

I also have a rocky and bullwinkle - Data East.
 
Would any of these work on a Williams Judge Dredd?

Judge Dredd uses a 6264 so either adapter would work. I have that game so I can tell you for sure that it works. Both use the same Ramtron F-RAM so it's basically the same thing.

In any case, either will work in your game.
 
So what types would I need for a

pinbot, space station, and F-14 - All system 11*

I also have a rocky and bullwinkle - Data East.

System 11 can be jumpered for 6264 or 6116. All of those games would have shipped with 6116. Keep in mind with System 11 that the RAM will be soldered to the MPU and you'll need to desolder the original RAM and install a socket to use an adapter.
 
System 11 can be jumpered for 6264 or 6116. All of those games would have shipped with 6116. Keep in mind with System 11 that the RAM will be soldered to the MPU and you'll need to desolder the original RAM and install a socket to use an adapter.

Okay I will have to check each of them out tonight and see what they have. Adding sockets are no big deal.
 
I've been selling this exact product on this forum and my site for quite a while now. I was also the first to market with 6264 adapters (go ahead and prove me wrong) so you've effectively just copied my existing product and undercut the price. I understand that's called free market economics and I don't hold it against you but I'll just do the same thing.

I'll beat this pricing by 20% for any KLOVer. I also have 6116 and 5101.

THis was good shit. I find it funny that there are always new posters with cheap shit. I feel bad for the guys selling 60-1 boards. New people came on here selling them at dirt cheap prices. I know what they cost now because I can buy them too but I dont sell them on here because others already did.

Back to the post, I didnt even know these existed. Ill have to remember to order some for my next batch of pins coming in.
 
I've been selling this exact product on this forum and my site for quite a while now. I was also the first to market with 6264 adapters (go ahead and prove me wrong) so you've effectively just copied my existing product and undercut the price. I understand that's called free market economics and I don't hold it against you but I'll just do the same thing.

I'll beat this pricing by 20% for any KLOVer. I also have 6116 and 5101.

I don't see how I copied anyone's product considering the 6264 pinout is *exactly* the same as the DIP version of the Ramtron product and people were replacing 6264's with the Ramtron DIP product way before you were selling your adapter boards for 6264 which simply map SOIC package pinout 1-to-1 with a DIP pinout. It's like saying you created the Ramtron part yourself. I thought you might have a problem considering how quickly you signed up for a Pinside account when I posted there, but your response here was much less polite.

I'm not selling 5101 or 6116 RAM adapters which map the pins differently. If I made a copy of your PCB design (traces and all) I would consider myself in the wrong, but there are adapters for all types of EPROMs or ICs out there and many people making them. If I create a 2532 to 2732 adapter and sell it, does someone else have the patent on that? If my board design and trace layout is different, it's a different product. This particular adapter isn't even in the same ballpark of calling it "copying". The Ramtron SOIC part is *the exact same* part as the DIP version just in a different package and lower voltage requirements. I'm not going to feel bad about selling something that is just adapting an SOIC part to DIP 1-for-1. What I'm offering is the SOIC part soldered onto an adapter board with machine header pins. I'm sorry if you feel I copied your product, but take it up with Ramtron who had the DIP version before you created an adapter for their SOIC package?? The copying argument just doesn't hold much merit in this case.

I know you have a good reputation here, but I think there are rules about not crapping on for-sale threads or provoking others to do so. I've only sold a single one of these so far, so it's not like I'm making a lot of money on them even at regular pricing.. they do take time to make & test.. but it would be cool if I could get some of the money I invested in all the parts back & put it into another project. I bought a bulk amount of these parts because I needed a bunch for my own machines and am starting to get into some projects of my own so figured it would be something neat to offer for sale.
 
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THis was good shit. I find it funny that there are always new posters with cheap shit.

I assure you, the only thing "cheap" is the price.. especially now that Lindsey has helped drive down the price further =) But that's okay, competitive pricing is always good for the hobby and I hope a lot of people can get rid of their batteries that haven't been able to justify it by the price of these. The 6264 adapters really shouldn't be expensive IMO. You can build them with common parts since there's no special mapping of pins going on (continuing to stress here that the Ramtron part is the exact pinout of the 6264 RAM). As for the 5101, 6116.. those would take custom designed circuit boards but again it's just re-mapping some of the pinouts and the boards themselves probably cost $3-4 or less each since they're small and you'd be buying in bulk from a PCB manufacturer.

I have accounts many other places with more longevity, have been on Anandtech Forums since the late 90s, have been on RGP since 2008, eBay since 1996 (before most people even knew about eBay) with 100% feedback and 800 transactions. But you can't be everywhere all at once, everyone's a tourist somewhere :)

I'm really not trying to anger anyone by selling this product. I did not violate any copyright laws, I'm simply adapting an SOIC Ramtron part to a DIP Ramtron part using standard components. The people that should be angry are the ones that realize a 6264, 6064 and 2064 pinout is *exactly* the same as the Ramtron part number being used and if it was available as a DIP package still it would be a simple swap with the DIP Ramtron, no adapter needed. Heck if you want to make them yourself then by all means, you can probably get the parts for $8-10 but will need to pay various shipping or buy in bulk to get near that price.

For anyone interested in building these on their own, I'll even sell you the parts (SOIC adapter board, machine pin headers, Ramtron IC) for $12ea shipped or possibly less in bulk. You'll need a quality soldering gun, time & some soldering skills.. they generally take 30 min or so each to make and test.
 
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I've been selling this exact product on this forum and my site for quite a while now. I was also the first to market with 6264 adapters (go ahead and prove me wrong) so you've effectively just copied my existing product and undercut the price. I understand that's called free market economics and I don't hold it against you but I'll just do the same thing.

I'll beat this pricing by 20% for any KLOVer. I also have 6116 and 5101.

Lindsey what bothers me about this is really that there's no justification for the thread crapping that took place here. If you had a problem you could have contacted me directly and we could have discussed it in private. Instead you immediately accused me of copying your product & tried garnering support from others. My position still would have been that for the 6264 adapter it's merely converting an SOIC part to DIP pinout and there's nothing wrong with someone else offering that product. I'm not doing anything wrong.. or if I am, then anyone using the same logic chip in a design as someone else to serve a similar function is in violation of copyrights.

Here's a post about the DIP Ramtron part if anyone cares:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....hread/thread/dfd6240d7f490db/dec24b91612f6e0c

Anyway I realize here since I'm a new[er] poster and you've obviously been here a while it probably doesn't matter what I say to some people, you'll have their backing. That's fine, but I do give back to the community in many ways by helping others & posting information about repairs or how-to guides on my website http://www.techdose.com -- and have for about 15 years now. I also even allowed you to promote your Pinforge website in a comment knowing full well it would probably help you get some sales. At this point though I'm re-considering leaving the comment there based on how everything went down here, things could have been handled in a much more respectable manner.
 
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Support all Data East? So it would also work on Data East Star Trek (DEST 25)?

In my experience, all the Data East machines I've had have either been 6064 or 6264 RAM at location 5-D (the board is sortof setup like a matrix so it has numbers printed on the pcb from left to right and letters top to bottom. The RAM is at location 5-D. I've replaced in Laser War, Lethal Weapon, Secret Service & Last Action Hero. Those games span quite a few years so unless someone tells me otherwise, it seems that Data East used sockets on all of their MPU boards & this NVRAM adapter will work. It's just best if you double check yourself since it only takes a couple minutes.

The few Williams System 11's I have are either a different part number (6116) or not in a socket. So if you need a 6116 adapter you could buy it from Lindsey if you want, at his new special pricing due to this thread =)
 
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Lindsey what bothers me about this is really that there's no justification for the thread crapping that took place here. If you had a problem you could have contacted me directly and we could have discussed it in private. Instead you immediately accused me of copying your product & tried garnering support from others. My position still would have been that for the 6264 adapter it's merely converting an SOIC part to DIP pinout and there's nothing wrong with someone else offering that product. I'm not doing anything wrong.. or if I am, then anyone using the same logic chip in a design as someone else to serve a similar function is in violation of copyrights.

Here's a post about the DIP Ramtron part if anyone cares:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....hread/thread/dfd6240d7f490db/dec24b91612f6e0c

Anyway I realize here since I'm a new[er] poster and you've obviously been here a while it probably doesn't matter what I say to some people, you'll have their backing. That's fine, but I do give back to the community in many ways by helping others & posting information about repairs or how-to guides on my website http://www.techdose.com -- and have for about 15 years now. I also even allowed you to promote your Pinforge website in a comment knowing full well it would probably help you get some sales. At this point though I'm re-considering leaving the comment there based on how everything went down here, things could have been handled in a much more respectable manner.

Go ahead and point out where anything I said was inaccurate.

I immediately accused you of copying my product because you DID copy my product. Please explain how you didn't. I don't have any legal ground to sue you or anything and I don't even care but you made a product that you already knew existed. By definition that's a copy. Go ahead and explain how it isn't.

I'm being disrespectful to YOU? That's a pretty funny assertion right there. So what would you have done if I emailed you first (which you didn't have the respect to do for me before selling the exact product I was already selling)? Would you have just stopped selling them? That seems a little unrealistic given that you already knew I was selling these by your own admission.

Go ahead and delete my comments on your site. It won't hurt my feelings. Seems a little petty given how I supported you there in effectively copying another of my ideas. I'm sure I'm not getting any sales through that comment anyway. I haven't had a single person mention it. At least you gave me credit that time. I'll give you that.

Sorry, I didn't realize that was your site. Now I know that you definitely had prior knowledge of my site and copied my product. I gave you the benefit of the doubt before. If you knew I was already building them then what else am I supposed to assume then you did the exact same thing and just undercut my pricing? That's exactly what I've said you've done here so go ahead and point out where I'm being disrespectful. Go ahead and delete my comments there if it will make you feel better. I've gained no sales from it anyway.

Much more respectable manner? I told you a long time ago that I was selling these and now you've basically admitted you already knew. How about some respect for me? If you don't like my pragmatic pointing out of the obvious then I don't know what to tell you.

Like it or not and intentional or not you've copied my original product and undercut the pricing. At this point it's pretty clear it was intentional. I already said I didn't hold it against you and I actually agree that it's just a RAM stuck on a PCB. There's nothing revolutionary about it. I have no copyright or patent. What I do expect though is people who are fully aware of that product, and people who consider themselves contributors to this "hobby", AND someone who has already seen benefit from my other hard work (WarpZoneArcade.com), to not create an exact copy and sell it behind my back for a cheaper price. I know... call me crazy.

I hold no ill will. If people want to take my original ideas, slap their names on them and call them their own I can't stop them. I just don't want to be sitting on these adapters for the rest of my life so I cut my pricing. Once these are gone I'll move on to greener pastures. I honestly figured someone would undercut me on these anyway so I'm not surprised.

You knew full well what you were doing here but like I said I don't even care. You have as much right to sell these as I do. Just don't act like you're just trying to help the community and I'm some kind of asshole in this because that's far from accurate. If you were doing that then you would be selling them for cost which is about $7.

Don't get me wrong. None of us are making a dime here.
 
I'll match my own pricing by 25% for the next 30 days on this forum. Lets see how good of a deal we can make KLOV'ers! Everyone should be able to get this particular adapter at a price lower than $30 since it's just adapting the surface mount part to DIP.

--- SPECIAL PRICING FOR NEXT 30 DAYS! ---
1 adapter $19.00 shipped
2-3 adapters $18.00 each shipped
4-6 adapters $17.50 each shipped
6+ adapters $16.50 each shipped

Sure, I'll bite. I'll beat any pricing posted in this thread.
 
Heck if you want to make them yourself then by all means, you can probably get the parts for $8-10 but will need to pay various shipping or buy in bulk to get near that price.

For anyone interested in building these on their own, I'll even sell you the parts (SOIC adapter board, machine pin headers, Ramtron IC) for $12ea shipped or possibly less in bulk. You'll need a quality soldering gun, time & some soldering skills.. they generally take 30 min or so each to make and test.

Anyone who wants the Eagle files for the 6264 adapter can send me a PM. After my stock is depleted I won't be selling these anymore. I figured I would be undercut sooner or later anyway. There's no money in it and I can use the RAMs for more interesting projects.

FWIW: The cost is about $7 each to build these. Not including assembly.

Here's the source for the RAM:
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=FM16W08SGRAMTRON5002417&IM=1

EDIT:
Actually, I'll just post the Eagle files, links, etc... on my site. Should have just done that in the first place. I've never been in this to make money because there's no real money to be made.
 
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You knew full well what you were doing here but like I said I don't even care. You have as much right to sell these as I do. Just don't act like you're just trying to help the community and I'm some kind of asshole in this because that's far from accurate. If you were doing that then you would be selling them for cost which is about $7.

Don't get me wrong. None of us are making a dime here.

I'm not calling you any names Lindsey, nor am I disrespecting any of your past contributions to the arcade or pinball hobby whatsoever. I can see you have a good reputation here and anyone that helps out the community and shares knowledge is okay in my book. That being said, the problem I have in this scenario is I post a for sale for something built out of off-the-shelf components that is just taking a surface mount part and converting it to DIP and I get accused of copying a design. What design? If I was selling a regular 28-pin DIP Ramtron that *is* pin-for-pin compatible with a 6264 IC (and apparently they only produced a few and then decided to just go SOIC), would you call that yours? If you want to show me where you were the first to find Ramtron parts are pin-for-pin compatible with 6264 RAM then I would agree with you on the point about being the first to use Ramtron in a pinball or arcade machine. That still doesn't mean it's your design though.. it's Ramtron's design. The pinout on the RAM is *exactly* the pinout of a 6264 IC directly from the manufacturer, it's just in a surface mount package instead of DIP. So get a SOIC-to-DIP converter and you have the larger package DIP Ramtron that they didn't produce in bulk. Not sure why you had a custom PCB made up when there are 28-pin SOIC to DIP boards available on eBay? If you really wanted to argue copying you could say you copied someone else's 28-pin SOIC to 28-pin DIP adapter board.

I could understand being frustrated if the boards were complex & more than basically the RAM chip itself. If I somehow photocopied your PCB and it was the same product built with 10 different components then it would be a different story. I could even see an argument for the 5101 & 6116 adapters, since they are *slightly* more complex... but I took a small RAM chip and put it on a common SOIC-to-DIP board that makes it into the larger package that was ALREADY available from Ramtron. Yes it costs more than materials themselves, because there's time assembling it and some people can't solder surface mount.. and you could always take it to the extreme and argue if I really cared about the community I'd send them out for free and eat $8-9 cost in components + shipping. But I see no harm in assembling something that's built out of commonly available components to make it into a DIP package.. I changed nothing with the original design of the chip itself.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on this and let it go. I'm happy that the people who benefit are the community that we each support anyway =)
 
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The more I think about this the more I see how stupid it is.

I'm just going to permanently adjust my pricing to match yours and call it a day. It's a product anyone can build and sell. I'm just trying to be competitive in the market. Ultimately it benefits people buying 5101 and 6116 but get them while you can because it's going to be hard to find the motivation to build any more at these prices.
 
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Giving me the respect that you asked me to give to you after the fact would have been nice but you don't owe me anything. But trashing me the way you did on the other forum is total fucking bullshit.

I do apologize for my comment about questioning your character in the other forum and can only justify that by waking up to see multiple thread craps on BOTH of my for sale posts after a very long 3 weeks of coding at work meeting deadlines, and having contractors at my house all week putting a roof on. Sometimes as I'm sure you're aware life happens & bad weeks just get worse and the little crap blows out of proportion. I did feel like your initial comments were essentially doing harm to my reputation and selling anything either in the present or future if someone stumbles across these posts.

So.. Lindsey, I publicly apologize to you for any negative character remarks that were made, it escalated to that because it seemed like my own character was being called into question. Maybe to an extent we're both right and wrong, but it doesn't matter at this point because it's done with. I'll still sell these or the component kits since like you I also bought in bulk & no sense having them sit forever... got way too many other things I bought in bulk sitting around =] I'm just content that whoever people buy these from will get a good deal and be able to abolish batteries from their machine once and for all!
 
The more I think about this the more I see how stupid it is.

I'm just going to permanently adjust my pricing to match yours and call it a day. It's a product anyone can build and sell. I'm just trying to be competitive in the market. Ultimately it benefits people buying 5101 and 6116 but get them while you can because it's going to be hard to find the motivation to build any more at these prices.

Agreed. Hope we can put this behind us. I don't think you should lower your prices much if at all on the 5101 or 6116.. those can't be built with off-the-shelf components and it makes sense to charge more for them and have motivation to build. Just my opinion. I won't touch those adapters.. this one was just easy enough with getting the 28-pin SOIC to DIP converter, but I am sorry if you felt I copied. It's okay though, at the end of the day people are getting a good deal and you still have other unique adapters.. and we'll both move onto other things that won't make us money either .. lol.
 
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