nintendo + Toaster = NinToaster... I need some help!

morbidboy

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nintendo + Toaster = NinToaster... I need some help!

So I want to build one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDGR2MiCyYs

But I don't know how to build the Video Amplifier (10:52-14:00 of youtube video). I don't know how to read a technical schematic/diagram but I'm pretty good at putting stuff together. Can anyone explain step by step how to make one for my project?
 
Well, do you *have* the diagram? I can explain it to you, but with nothing to work from, there's not a heck of a lot I'm going to be able to do.

I'm not sure what video amplifier would be necessary, I mean, if you just want to recase an NES into a toaster housing, that's trivially easy, no real electronic knowledge required. It's just mounting crap in another box and connecting it all the way it was before.

-Ian
 
(10:52-14:00 of youtube video)


Well, do you *have* the diagram? I can explain it to you, but with nothing to work from, there's not a heck of a lot I'm going to be able to do.

I'm not sure what video amplifier would be necessary, I mean, if you just want to recase an NES into a toaster housing, that's trivially easy, no real electronic knowledge required. It's just mounting crap in another box and connecting it all the way it was before.

-Ian
 
This is a very simple circuit:

one transistor npn 2n4401 with +5 on the collector, video in on base, emitter has a voltage divider; a 33 ohm goes to a 220 ohm resistor with ground on other end. Video out where the two resistors connect. Very simple and can be made in very short time.
 
This is a very simple circuit:

one transistor npn 2n4401 with +5 on the collector, video in on base, emitter has a voltage divider; a 33 ohm goes to a 220 ohm resistor with ground on other end. Video out where the two resistors connect. Very simple and can be made in very short time.

Oh, OK. That's trivial then. That makes the whole "putting a diagram in a youtube video" a little less awful. Heh. Although, come on, documenting your project entirely in video form? Still lame.

Although, one wonders why you'd need it, since the Nintendo already outputs clean composite video. The only thing I can think of is that he's removed the RF/power module from the main board, and is thus powering it directly with an offboard regulator. That box contains the video amplifier, modulator and obviously the voltage regulator. If that's the case, then you might need the above circuit to boost the output enough to drive a TV clearly. You'd lose your RF output though.

-Ian
 
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Oh, OK. That's trivial then. That makes the whole "putting a diagram in a youtube video" a little less awful. Heh. Although, come on, documenting your project entirely in video form? Still lame.

Although, one wonders why you'd need it, since the Nintendo already outputs clean composite video. The only thing I can think of is that he's removed the RF/power module from the main board, and is thus powering it directly with an offboard regulator. That box contains the video amplifier, modulator and obviously the voltage regulator. If that's the case, then you might need the above circuit to boost the output enough to drive a TV clearly. You'd lose your RF output though.

-Ian

Yep, They remove the rf modulator and that is why you need to build this amp. They strip the Nintendo down to the main board and put it in a toaster. Kind of neat project until you get to the 72 pin connector you have to solder wires to.

The potential to screw up is kind of high though. It did not look like they put an earth ground to the casing (toaster) or a fuse in the circuit but they are using a wall wart with 12vdc to a 5 volt regulator.
 
Kind of neat project until you get to the 72 pin connector you have to solder wires to.

That shouldn't be a difficult task though, just a little tedious. Hopefully he at least mounted it to a piece of perf board to simplify that, right? Or is he using a solder eyelet type connector (kind of rare when dealing with .01 spacing connectors).

The potential to screw up is kind of high though. It did not look like they put an earth ground to the casing (toaster) or a fuse in the circuit but they are using a wall wart with 12vdc to a 5 volt regulator.

Hopefully there's a heat sink on the 7805 ;)

And the decision to use a 12vdc adapter is strange, since the Nintendo uses a 9vac adapter. Probably saved fifteen cents on diodes by using the DC adapter... One of the nice advantages of the way Nintendo did it is that it doesn't much matter if you use a DC or an AC adapter - the 9vdc power pack from a Sega Genesis works just find on a Nintendo. Actually, if he's building it inside a toaster, why wouldn't he just mount a small transformer in there and have a 120vac cord coming out the back, just like a real toaster? There should be plenty of room in a toaster for a power transformer.

-Ian
 
That shouldn't be a difficult task though, just a little tedious. Hopefully he at least mounted it to a piece of perf board to simplify that, right? Or is he using a solder eyelet type connector (kind of rare when dealing with .01 spacing connectors).



Hopefully there's a heat sink on the 7805 ;)

And the decision to use a 12vdc adapter is strange, since the Nintendo uses a 9vac adapter. Probably saved fifteen cents on diodes by using the DC adapter... One of the nice advantages of the way Nintendo did it is that it doesn't much matter if you use a DC or an AC adapter - the 9vdc power pack from a Sega Genesis works just find on a Nintendo. Actually, if he's building it inside a toaster, why wouldn't he just mount a small transformer in there and have a 120vac cord coming out the back, just like a real toaster? There should be plenty of room in a toaster for a power transformer.

-Ian

Yes; they used perf board.

They did put the +5 regulator to the toaster casing for the heat sink.

Seems to me like a lot of work. You are taking something electronic from a plastic enclosure and putting it into a big metal container with a power cord and no earth ground.

They pull apart the wall wart and put that into the toaster with some plastic to protect it from the casing, I did not like that too much especially without an earth ground. This thing has the potential to kill if not done proper.
 
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This thing has the potential to kill if not done proper.

Only if you *really* screwed it up. I don't see any real danger unless he did something moronic with the insulation on the 120vac wires. And while it would be nice to have a fuse, there's no fuse in the original Nintendo either. (The SNES has one though). I guess they assumed you'd burn out the winding in the plug pack transformer long before you hurt anyone with the output. The danger would only exist with the input side of the transformer.

I don't think this is the kind of application that needs an earth ground - most appliances are not grounded. (TV's, VCR's, DVD players, stereo equipment, alarm clocks, etc - all ungrounded).

And if he wanted to avoid any problems like that, he could simply mount a low voltage AC jack for the original wall wart on the toaster, and run a cable to the original power socket on the original modulator box - he could avoid having to muck with the video amplifier or the power regulator circuit at all. It would take up more space, but hey - just use a four slice model :)

-Ian
 
I don't think this is the kind of application that needs an earth ground - most appliances are not grounded. (TV's, VCR's, DVD players, stereo equipment, alarm clocks, etc - all ungrounded).
They aren't made of metal... Only an idiot would have mains voltage running into an unearthed metal chassis.

Having said that I do not understand why you wouldn't simply put a DC input jack on the toaster and use the original Nintendo power supply. I guess he felt the need to make things more complicated than necessary.
 
Look on my site, http://nesp.tighelory.com

I have the schematic for the video am.

Edit:
I can't believe it will be 11 years since I made that beast.

Anyway here is a direct link, mine has more than just the video amp, I used a dc-dc converter because it is more efficient than a voltage regulator. This is important in a portable system, not in a Nintendo Toaster.

http://nesp.tighelory.com/schematics.shtml
 
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They aren't made of metal... Only an idiot would have mains voltage running into an unearthed metal chassis.
Yes they are. The television set in my bedroom is made out of metal. So is the VCR and the DVD player. The stereo amplifier is also made out of metal, as is the tape deck and the CD player. Absolutely none of it has an earth ground. Granted, most of those things do have plastic faceplates, but the bases and covers are metal.

Also, don't forget - toasters are made out of metal, and are not grounded. They are not unsafe either.

Of course, most newer TV's are made of plastic, and pretty much all alarm clocks are, but still - there are thousands of different devices out there, made of metal that are not grounded. It is NOT an unsafe thing to do. Remember, the only "hot" thing is right before the power transformer. So, basically, the power cord and the switch.

A true "hot chassis" is a silly thing to do - it was done back years ago with radios especially. Series string tube filaments, no power transformer, rectified line voltage for the B+, and the metal chassis of the set was connected to one side of the AC line, depending on which direction the plug was inserted. That would also mean that everything, including the control shafts could potentially be hot. To protect the user from this, they simply made the knobs out of plastic, and hid any screws on the bottom of the cabinet. Of course, if the knobs fell off, or if someone picked up the radio, then ZAP! Later they mandated plastic control shafts, or retaining clips for the knobs to prevent them from being removed from the cabinet. Also, plastic bushings that the screws threaded into.

This isn't that kind of situation here.

-Ian
 
Having mains voltage inside an unearthed metal casing is unsafe. In the (admittedly unlikely) event that the voltage came into contact with the case, it could kill someone. It has happened.

Most countries regulations say that a metal chassis MUST be earthed. If you are willing to risk killing someone for the sake of a few cents worth of wire, you are a fool.
 
Having mains voltage inside an unearthed metal casing is unsafe.
So, is this just your personal opinion, or do you have some sort of regulation to cite? How can you explain the thousands upon thousands of electronic devices, made with metal housings, that aren't grounded? Are those all unsafe too?

Or is this one of those generalizations like "cars are unsafe"?

In an ideal world, yes, every device would be grounded. And in an ideal world. they'd probably have some kind of separation between neutral and ground, and not have the two conductors bolted together in the breaker box. But they don't do that either.

There is nothing wrong with a device in a metal housing not being grounded. Just don't connect anything to the chassis! Is that so hard? Insulate anything that's hot, and leave it at that. It's one of those situations where "it could be unsafe, if this series of stupid things were done to it" - which could really apply to anything.

And actually, think of it this way - a metal device with a grounded cabinet would be MORE dangerous if the wiring were incorrect. I know this from first hand experience, having been hit with 220v (50A circuit) from a large computer (IBM AS/400) that was plugged into a miswired outlet. Ground was hot. I was leaning against the metal computer as I was turning on the power switch. That was one heck of a jolt.

It's more likely that the wiring external to the device will be faulty, than for something to somehow magically happen to insulated wiring sealed up in a metal box.

-Ian
 
So, is this just your personal opinion, or do you have some sort of regulation to cite?
British & Australian/New Zealand Electrical Standards would be a good place to start.

RetroHacker said:
How can you explain the thousands upon thousands of electronic devices, made with metal housings, that aren't grounded? Are those all unsafe too?
Potentially. Apart from the risk of the chassis becoming live, there is also the possibility of leakage currents between various devices adding up and causing injury. I once heard a story of someone who had a number of VCR's connected together for tape duplicating and they'd removed all the earths because they were causing interference on the video.

They ended up getting a very nasty shock and had to have an expert come in, re-earth the VCR's, and isolate them with some isolation transformers.

RetroHacker said:
There is nothing wrong with a device in a metal housing not being grounded. Just don't connect anything to the chassis! Is that so hard? Insulate anything that's hot, and leave it at that. It's one of those situations where "it could be unsafe, if this series of stupid things were done to it" - which could really apply to anything.
You clearly need to educate yourself further on electrical safety. It is not a matter of "stupid things being done to it", connections can and do fail, and current does leak.
 
British & Australian/New Zealand Electrical Standards would be a good place to start.
Good for them. Perhaps in those countries more things are grounded. But there's nothing about it for American electrical standards. Perhaps this is one of those things where it's only unsafe in those countries, just in the way some things cause cancer, but only in the state of California.

Of course, all silliness aside, those countries are 240v, correct? Their electrical standards are totally different from ours in many ways - so it's not a good comparison. The 240v system is inherently more dangerous, so things were created (like sockets with integral guards, fuses in the plugs, etc) that just plain don't exist here.

Apart from the risk of the chassis becoming live, there is also the possibility of leakage currents between various devices adding up and causing injury. I once heard a story of someone who had a number of VCR's connected together for tape duplicating and they'd removed all the earths because they were causing interference on the video.

They ended up getting a very nasty shock and had to have an expert come in, re-earth the VCR's, and isolate them with some isolation transformers.

OK, and here is an example of "doing stupid things to it". Taking a device that was designed to be grounded, and ungrounding it. In a device that's designed to be grounded, there is usually a capacitor to ground to filter out noise. Remove the ground connection, and yes, there could be some kind of leakage currents, severe if the capacitor is bad. I've been bitten by just such a device. But if the device was never intended to be grounded, then what's connected to the chassis? Usually signal ground. Signal ground - the same kind of exposed ground that would be around the outer shell of an RCA socket.

If nothing on the hot side of the circuit is directly or indirectly connected to the chassis, then how are you going to get shocked by it?

You clearly need to educate yourself further on electrical safety. It is not a matter of "stupid things being done to it", connections can and do fail, and current does leak.

As do you. Also, you need to educate yourself on the way things actually exist, in the real world. Take a look at a VCR. It runs on 120v, has a two conductor zip cord that enters the back (metal) panel of the cabinet and is secured by a plastic strain relief. It terminates in a two contact female plastic connector, with the metal contacts safely inside. It plugs into a connector on the power supply board, the bottom of which is covered by a thin sheet of plastic, and the board is bolted to the metal base of the unit. There is absolutely no way either side of the AC line is going to connect to that metal case. You could throw the thing down a flight of stairs repeatedly and it still wouldn't happen. OK, so, the plug pops off the board - it's still not going to short to the case. The mounts for the board could bend, and the board could touch the case - but it won't, because there is a plastic guard there.

The only way you could EVER connect the hot to the cabinet would involve taking the thing apart and messing with the wiring, removing the insulation, or something. Or, I suppose, you could manually break the strain relief out (not easy to do), then sit there grinding the power cord against the inside of the now unprotected metal hole in the casing, and wear through the insulation... But all these things would fall squarely into the category of "doing something stupid with it". They're not going to happen unless you do it intentionally. But you could do exactly the same sorts of stupid things to a grounded appliance, by breaking the third prong off the plug and messing with the wiring, or plugging it into a miswired outlet.

I still maintain that with proper insulation, devices with metal housings are perfectly safe to exist ungrounded. I mean, if you don't trust insulation on wiring or connectors, then every single power cord or in-wall power line is suddenly suspect.

But, grounded or ungrounded, there are plenty of ways for wiring to be botched to make anything unsafe.

-Ian
 
Good for them. Perhaps in those countries more things are grounded. But there's nothing about it for American electrical standards. Perhaps this is one of those things where it's only unsafe in those countries, just in the way some things cause cancer, but only in the state of California.

Of course, all silliness aside, those countries are 240v, correct? Their electrical standards are totally different from ours in many ways - so it's not a good comparison. The 240v system is inherently more dangerous
How so? It's the current that hurts/kills people. More voltage = less current!

RetroHacker said:
OK, and here is an example of "doing stupid things to it". Taking a device that was designed to be grounded, and ungrounding it. In a device that's designed to be grounded, there is usually a capacitor to ground to filter out noise. Remove the ground connection, and yes, there could be some kind of leakage currents, severe if the capacitor is bad.
For once I agree with you.

RetroHacker said:
But if the device was never intended to be grounded, then what's connected to the chassis? Usually signal ground. Signal ground - the same kind of exposed ground that would be around the outer shell of an RCA socket.
That's actually illegal...

RetroHacker said:
If nothing on the hot side of the circuit is directly or indirectly connected to the chassis, then how are you going to get shocked by it?
Connectors fail, solder joints come off... You wouldn't believe some of the soldering I've seen on various Chinese appliances.

Not to mention the countless posts I've read on arcade forums over the years about people getting tingles/shocks from arcade cabinets & pinball machines. Lets say some cowboy does a dodgy wiring job on an arcade game and the coin door becomes electrified. Would you rather it blew a fuse, or killed the poor kid who decided to put a coin in?

It's obvious we're never going to agree on the subject, you Americans are taught that it's perfectly safe to have unearthed metal appliances and we are taught that is NOT ok under any circumstances. I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the subject :)
 
That's actually illegal...

You obviously aren't in the USA, because tons of products are like this.

Also most electronic devices the AC power goes directly into a transformer (which would isolate the current) and then bridge rectifier to convert it to DC. Now do I have to post some photos?
 
You obviously aren't in the USA, because tons of products are like this.
Then they're very poorly designed. I'd love to know the reasoning behind connecting signal ground to the case instead of earth.

Tighe said:
Also most electronic devices the AC power goes directly into a transformer (which would isolate the current) and then bridge rectifier to convert it to DC. Now do I have to post some photos?
Tell me something I don't know...
 
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