Need help with moral delima about a game I sold

I just want to take this opportunity to say I have nothing to do with any of this in any way, shape, or form other than I kind of live in the area...more of on the outside actually, perhaps rather far away. :)

Tony, to pile on..you sold it. Verbally or in the ad (I saw it) you did not offer a warranty. I have been asked and I always say, actually even if I'm not asked I say, that the warranty expires as soon as the game crosses my threshold. If they buyer does not get the point I say anything could fail at any time. The vehicle you drove here in may not start when you walk out to my drive way.

Having said that...I did "support" one game after I sold it but that was only because it was a semi-friend from the old days.

If your worried about Russel, call him up and talk to him.

I will add that I assume the Defender had a bezel in it. :):):):) (Sorry, I could not help myself....inside joke for everyone else!!)
 
I say you write him back....

Say... "Hey, it's probably just a fuse. Check them and let me know what happens"





Then never return his email/calls/knocks on your door.
 
Look at the pile of pennies I just bumped into! Here's my 2 cents to add to it:

It actually isn't a tough situation, for you. You sold it as is. It's his problem. I'm typically as nice and helpful as possible, but this dude sounds like he doesn't deserve it at all. The icing on this shit cake is that he is running it on location (the cherry is he left it on for 70 hours straight). You're not a tech for this guy's route. You're not rolling quarters or seeing a cut. Let him sort it out on his own.

Don't refund. You're paying him for a game he used to make a profit, even if it only made a buck. He just rented your game for free and broke it (and who knows what else he might do to it now). Screw that.

From the way you described him talking to you, don't help this guy at all. Tell him he bought it as is, he inspected it, it worked when he bought it/ran it for 70 hours straight and to stop calling. Like someone else said, you'll be "married" to him the second you do anything outside of telling him where to get it repaired. On top of, if something goes wrong after you helped him, it's auto-your fault.
 
And to add.....this guy's not new to operating. He's had that bar/coffee shop combo going for four or five years now. He's always had video games and pinballs in there. This isn't his first rodeo......he's looking for a new bitch, and Tony is his name (i'm kidding, Tony....sorta).

Edward
 
I have personally been on both sides of this exact issue a few times... I think the "return full price" is a line of bull and a bluff on his part. Over the years and moving a few hundred machines I've had this exact quote said to me before when a machine failed after the buyer getting it home. I've even offered it to the seller and had them refuse... Its almost like this type of buyer is expecting a screaming price and a bullet proof machine or for you to answer the call everytime it goes down.

One of my personal experiences, I was selling an 80's Williams game also, to someone I knew and think of as a friend. We had done business in the past and always both were happy. Well, in my bend over backwards days I had offered to bring the machine out to him, cool. A few days later we decide that we can meet halfway when he's in the zone on the weekend and save me a bit of a drive, sweet! Now this stupid 80's William's game had been in my livingroom for months and I had played the crap out of it. Never so much as had a monitor geek or graphic geek, a crappy joystick but played fine. On moving day I didn't know how the weather was going to be so I wrapped the hell out of the game shrinkwrapping it and the whole 9 yards. Long story short, we met, exchanged money and game in a parking lot 1/2 way. When we were moving the game over to his truck I realized that the monitor was loose. We open it up to find that the monitor neck & board was damaged! It was 100% my fault, I didn't check if the monitor was tight and had lucked out when I moved it to my house and around my gameroom. I offer a full replacement monitor as I felt I should have known to check if there were bolts in it. He thinks the tube was OK and just the neckboard cracked, we verify model number, bingo I have a game with one! The next day I pull a working monitor chassis off one of my games from my collection and drop it in the mail to him. Either that night or the next day it takes and ugly turn for the worse! He had gotten the monitor to work but it came up with scrambled pictures! Power supply was bad. The PCB was bad. Now all of the sudden I am being accused of switching pictures, photoshopping working games into my livingroom, selling a piece of garbage that never worked, yada yada yada... WHOA WHOA WHOA! I was going to be bringing this machine to his house originally. I would expect somebody to punch me in the face if I was selling a machine and were dropping it off knowing that it didn't work and I would have to come up with a story when I got there, yet ask full price as well?! I immediately offered a full refund and to come out and pickup the game, but was rejected. What do you do at that point? I'm trying to come out and take the game back yet he wants to keep the non-working piece of crap... At the time and maybe now I believe he was trying to beat me up on price, and indeed it didn't work, but once he had crossed the line of accusing me of intentionally deceiving him and refusing my full refund offer my help stopped, I knew I would be married to the machine.

My most expensive machine to get in my collection was a hell of a long roadtrip. I bought a really nice pinball machine that I felt was a lower end of average price and higher end of quality. Make the drive out, play it, SWEET, SCHWING!!! Drive the 500 miles back home, unload, plug it in, play a few games, proceed to drink coffee and start a marathon play going through the whole night. About 15 hours later the next day when I had to goto work in the morning the machine had already developed a few problems... Didn't even bother letting the seller know, ordered the parts that I needed and I personally figured that I had used the flippers about 1,000,000 times over the course of a solid all nighter and they had probably never seen that kind of use and abuse straight!

What it boils down to is the type of buyer, offer minimal help but do not bend over backwards or take it in the rear end to keep that feel good mushy feeling because you'll feel worse in the end.

Personally I would get a couple of 4116 rams or an old parts board and bring them out to him, and SHOW him how to read the error and how to properly replace the chip. Explain how common a RAM error is on these machines and explain that he must keep his own in stock and understand how to diagnose. Email him a link to crazykong of the manual online. If I was feeling super nice I'd print it off for the person. If he expects beyond that he's being very unreasonable... If he's being accusatory or demanding in any fashion I'd tell him to pound sand since your warranty is voluntary and if he expects bulletproof for under $500 on ANY kind of coin-op machine and he wants someone else to do the work and front the parts repairs he's smoking better stuff than the rest of us!!
 
Just bought a game from a local KLOVer and it died after being on for an hour. I asked him if he had any ideas of what I could try since I have no experience with b/w vectors and hardly any with vectors in general. I wasn't asking for a refund..just for things to check. He's coming over with a spare board and some help figuring out the problem. Great guy. But in no way did I expect it.

I was just gonna say we ran into a similar situation! I just sold my ADX to JB and it is now dying after an hour. I felt like crap when I heard that. I had owned the game for about 6 months and never had it on for over an hour. I offered up a spare board set for testing and to recap the monitor if it turned out to be a monitor issue. This was mine and JB's first transaction and I sure don't want it to be the last, so I will do everything I can to help out.

If you decide you want to have a future relationship with this guy, maybe offer to help out in a way you think is fair. But if he is being obnoxious about it, tell him to take a hike. Just my 2 cents.
 
As a newer person in the arcade scene, even I understand these conditions. When I bought my 1st cab about 3 or 4 years ago, after about 3 months, the monitor went out. Now, I was not expecting the person who I bought it from to fix it, but simply asked for some advice on fixing it to do myself. I could see that as fair. If he asked you some tips on what to do, there is nothing wrong with helping him out, but as for you fixing it or even giving a refund, well that is not your place. I knew these rules on my very first cab that I had minimal use on (it was not running for 70 hours, maybe 20 max) and it sounds like this guy knows the ropes and is just trying to get some free repairs out of the deal
 
As a newer person in the arcade scene, even I understand these conditions. When I bought my 1st cab about 3 or 4 years ago, after about 3 months, the monitor went out. Now, I was not expecting the person who I bought it from to fix it, but simply asked for some advice on fixing it to do myself. I could see that as fair. If he asked you some tips on what to do, there is nothing wrong with helping him out, but as for you fixing it or even giving a refund, well that is not your place. I knew these rules on my very first cab that I had minimal use on (it was not running for 70 hours, maybe 20 max) and it sounds like this guy knows the ropes and is just trying to get some free repairs out of the deal

I always offer advice to anyone that buys a game from me. I document my restorations heavily with pictures and I typically put up gameplay videos (with the pinball machines mainly) so there is never any doubt as to the condition of the game.

I would offer the buyer free advice but you are under no obligation to offer your time fixing the problem or to provide replacement parts. Do what you feel is right in the end. It seems to me that the buyer is trying to milk money out of you, bringing someone over to inspect the game seals the deal for me.
 
I don't think the issue is the game developed a problem.....it's the way the buyer acted after the problem developed. He immediately started with threats and accusations....and didn't let up. I know Tony.....and I think he'd offer help in any way he could....but, when someone shits on you from the get go, and insults you....there's only so much help you're willing to give. I think the old adage applies here.....you catch more flies with honey....

Edward
 
I don't think the issue is the game developed a problem.....it's the way the buyer acted after the problem developed. He immediately started with threats and accusations....and didn't let up. I know Tony.....and I think he'd offer help in any way he could....but, when someone shits on you from the get go, and insults you....there's only so much help you're willing to give. I think the old adage applies here.....you catch more flies with honey....

Edward

I agree completely, if someone starts off like that then no matter what they get no support whatsoever.
 
Sounds like a buyer from HELL! I had one of those before- I sold a nice Bally slot machine at our garage sale, it took dimes and the buyer got it cheap.

A week later we're walking out the door to go to my son's soccer game and this station wagon comes flying up the driveway, the guy gets out and it's the slot machine buyer. He wants it fixed RIGHT NOW, and his car is blocking ours. I didn't budget time to troubleshoot a slot machine before the game, so I give him my phone number (huge mistake) and put the slot in the garage.

It turned out to be a bent dime in the hopper, the machine worked fine. I'm being a nice guy and delivered it to his house about 20 minutes away, told him to make sure to use non-bent dimes and left.

Another week goes by, the phone rings around 10 pm, it's the buyer, he's drunk and his frigging slot machine isn't working. He rants for a while and I agree to stop by the next day, it's another bad dime! Thinking the hopper could be damaging the dimes, I go through a roll of dimes he has from the bank, there were two bent dimes that had never been in the machine, sure enough they cause trouble. The machine accepts them, but the hopper won't dispense them on payout.

After another week, he calls again and says he doesn't want the machine anymore, a couple more days, and a couple more drunken late night calls, and I agree to swap it out for another machine.

I ended up getting him one of those skill stops + tokens and he's happy.

A couple days later I get a call again, now the machine won't stop paying out; I explained the payout limits & modes when I sold it, I explain them again.

That's the last I heard from him and it pretty much cured me of being too accommodating when selling a machine. They are old and can be prone to failure; if the buyer is expecting a bargain price, it comes with a risk that they could own a paperweight. If they want a white glove unlimited warranty, they can go to the local retail store and pay $1500.00 for their game.

With that said, I hate to see anyone disappointed and a lot depends on the buyer's attitude. I almost never say no if they're just asking for help or which direction to go with a repair; it's when they start out demanding refunds and making declarations that I tell them to take a hike.
 
It's a RAM error? Just walk him through it on the phone. Have him swap some chips around and see if the number changes. If it was working solid for 70 hours, and then crashed, I'd say he just needs a replacement 4116. It happens.

I'd be nice to him, help him over the phone, see what you can get sorted - but at the same time, he did buy a 30 year old video game. He knew what he was getting in to. If he has a tech, then he should have no problem fixing it.

Honestly, most games can handle running all the time. That's what they were designed to do. Just, sometimes they may need repair. And running them solid - sooner rather than later. Especially things containing 4116's or Williams power supplies. Heh.

-Ian

I would not have him put his hands on this to repair it execpt for maybee the red wire on the pic. tube while it is on. It will probably do more harm than good. He had a tech. with him that probably can fix it. If he screws anything up inside, he will say it was like that.
I have done customer service over the phone in the past and some people are just upset at first sign of trouble. Many times than not, they calm down after you start to figure what the problem is and they see you are actually tried to help them. This guy doesn't seem like this type. I try to help people who help themselvs, but this guy has not tried to do anything but complain to the seller. I would be really nice to the guy on the phone and NOT repair, make offer to repair, and NOT offer any hint as to a refund.
Refer him to the "tail lights" policy. If he was not pleased with what he bought he never would have parted with the monies. He just want to make some money on the game at his location and then sell the game. It will probably be on craigs list soon.
 
I would not have him put his hands on this to repair it execpt for maybee the red wire on the pic. tube while it is on. It will probably do more harm than good. He had a tech. with him that probably can fix it. If he screws anything up inside, he will say it was like that.
I have done customer service over the phone in the past and some people are just upset at first sign of trouble. Many times than not, they calm down after you start to figure what the problem is and they see you are actually tried to help them. This guy doesn't seem like this type. I try to help people who help themselvs, but this guy has not tried to do anything but complain to the seller. I would be really nice to the guy on the phone and NOT repair, make offer to repair, and NOT offer any hint as to a refund.
Refer him to the "tail lights" policy. If he was not pleased with what he bought he never would have parted with the monies. He just want to make some money on the game at his location and then sell the game. It will probably be on craigs list soon.

It sounded to me as though he had it on location and determined it wasn't making him a mint, so now he wants to get his money back.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
 
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