need help with F-14 pinball solenoid problem

Sarconus

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Hey guys i have been scowering the internet for help. I recently purchased F-14 which i proceeded to shop out. Everything worked fine until i replaced a jet bumper which had fallen to pieces after i took it apart. I purchased all new hardware and re-assembled the bumper back together.

After putting it back together I noticed the several of the other solenoids were not working so I checked the fuses and the 5am 250volt fuse was blown. I replaced the fuse and once again the pop bumper resumed the on stated on boot up.

The things i have read state that some of the transistors could have gone bad. Has anyone else had this issues with system 11 boards? Just seems kind of wierd that this issue happen after a cleaning... Piff electronics...


Thanks for the help!
 
I replaced the fuse and once again the pop bumper resumed the on stated on boot up.

Not sure I follow you here - the coil locked on when you turned the machine on, and that caused the fuse to blow?

So - considering I'm not really sure what is happening, but I'll guess - put a new fuse in there - unhook the wires from the pop bumper assembly that you just installed (tape the wire ends so they don't short against anything) - fire the machine back up. Everything work except that assembly? Or does the fuse still blow.

At this point you really don't know if the problem is something you did when "shopping" the machine, or a problem with the bumper assembly. Remove the assembly from the equation and see what happens. If you are still blowing a fuse, you know to look elsewhere. It obviously sounds like you have a short somewhere, and the newly replaced bumper assembly would be the logical place to start looking. But I don't know what else you messed with up to this point.

And typing this, I realize again I really don't know what problem you are experiencing, so I'd probably just better wait for you to clarify....
 
As soon as i turn the machine one the pop bumper solenoid is activated state and stay that way. Blew a fuse (special solenoid fuse)and fried the last one until i smelled the smoke.

What i have seen it could be TP109??
 
assuming you have physically isolated the leaf switch itself and taken it out of the equation, it could be a transistor. I think those are tip122's at maybe Q71 or Q75 (check the manual, don't take my word on it....)

Find the transistor that drives the coil, put your MM across the tab and each leg individually. You should see around .06 across each leg you test (don't get hung up on exact # - they should all be in this area and close to each other)

What you are really looking for is a dead short and that would be apparent with your MM. If so, needs to be replaced.

I believe my theory on this is correct (if not, someone will let me know) but that coil is fired by the application of ground to the coil itself (power to the coil remains constant, it is the ground that the software controls to make it activate on demand). If your transistor is shorted, it would be applying the ground signal consistenly to the coil, causing it to lock on.

Test the transistor with the power off of course....
 
update

Okay so I replaced the blown fuses and now the solenoid does not fire at all. Will not fire in test mode and does not energize during power up. I did use MM and saw that the dido was working fine.

This leads me to believe the TP has gone bad? I will try to test with MM tonight Q69 i believe. Is there anything else i should test? I did do a switch test and the switch tested fine, well at least the bottom part of the leaf switch. Should the cup also test back active during the switch test? If so they that is bad or is that directly tied to the solenoid?

Thanks!
 
Assuming you are getting power to the coil..(fuse holder, bad fuse, etc.)

I'd ground the tab of the transistor at Q69 and see if the coil fires. If it does, it eliminates power and wiring issues from Q69 to the board. This doesn't prove anything about the transistor itself - it simply tests the circuit flow from the output of the TIP to the coil.

If that works good, but it still won't fire in test mode - at that point, I'd probably tackle the transistor. If it does end up the Q69 is shorted, figure out which transistor is the pre-driver and test that too just in case.

FYI, the spoon switch is not a part of the switch matrix, so won't show up on the switch edge test. The signal does run thru the main board (to trigger the transistor to fire the coil), but it's not CPU controlled so not part of the matrix.

If it won't fire in test mode but fires when you ground the transistor, it's probably a transistor issue
If it won't fire in test mode and won't fire when you ground the TIP, it's either a basic power problem, the coil is dead or wiring from the board to the coil is broken
If it fires in test mode, but still won't work in gameplay- it's probably a switch issue, which could be the switch itself or the wiring to the board
 
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update: /smack forehead - while looking at the circuitry i discover what i think is Q69 burnt to a crisp... :( - Its next to Q71 but the black sut is over the ID so cant tell but cant find a Q69 anywhere else would think that is the deal...

IMAG0046.jpg
 
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Okay I replaced the q69 although traces were burned off so had to do wire bridge. The pop bumper doesn't stay engaged but still overheating and not firing.. Any suggestions?
 
That's Q69, and it's job is controlling that pop bumper. If you've replaced it and it's good, and you've confirmed your wiring is correct at the pop bumper coil, *and* the coil is good (not shorted, diode in place, etc.), then suspect Q68, which is the pre-driver. It's a 2N4401, and is located right above Q69 in your picture. Test it, and replace it as necessary.

Verify whether it fires both in game-mode, and in test mode as suggested earlier.

If replacing Q68 doesn't help, it may be an issue with U45 nearby - a 7402. See page 55 of the manual.

Given how cooked Q69 is however, there's a good chance it's the 2N4401, again assuming you're confident the coil is good - you noted you "rebuilt" the pop bumper, but not clear that means you put a new coil in, and are confident it's wired correctly.
 
Updat

Okay so i now have the pop up bumper working correctly minus one thing. Looks like when the ball rolls over the apron it is not triggering the pop bumper. Coil fires when i manually touch the switch so it looks like i may have an issue with rebuilding of the apron. The spring underneath feels like it sticks.
 
For the sake of somebody reading this thread in 3 years, what did you have to do to keep the coil from locking on?

Regardless, congrats on making progress. Sounds like at this point you've either got a basic switch adjustment problem or you assembled something incorrectly. Either way should be an easy fix. Enjoy.
 
For the sake of somebody reading this thread in 3 years, what did you have to do to keep the coil from locking on?

Regardless, congrats on making progress. Sounds like at this point you've either got a basic switch adjustment problem or you assembled something incorrectly. Either way should be an easy fix. Enjoy.

Well the pop bumper is work 100% now and all these issues were my own fault. The whole issue started with the protective plastic not being installed on the power feed to the light!! I decided to rebuild the pop bumper last night to see if i missed something and sure enough damn thing was feeding power to the housing. Once I applied electrical tape and remounted the pop bumper everything work properly.

Once bumper was firing i noticed it would not respond to ball rolling on apron so i decided to loosen the screws inside the housing. This fixed the remaining issue of the apron skirt not triggering the switch.

This was my first time replacing pop bumper and i have learned a great deal. Lesson learned? Make sure no live wires are exposed to save a lot of time and money.
 
Good deal, glad you got it fixed. And now that bit of knowledge..."how to rebuild a pop bumper"....will live with you forever! Now lather, rinse and repeat and in a few months you'll be passing that knowledge and more on to others. Congrats.
 
Damn it!! got home after work ready to play and guess what? Pop bumper doesnt fire anymore and my right bottom flipper has stopped working as well. SOB i cant catch a break....
 
you will find a "spoon" like item under the playfield that activates the pop bumpers switch to fire the coil. this spoon is plastic and can become brittle or even get a hole in it from use. The pop bumpers skirt rides in the 'cup' part of the spoon and should be centered and move freely and should not have to much force pushing up on it from the switch below. Hope this helps you with your issue.
 
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