Need electrical help

starbuck77

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ok, so as some of you have read I am turning a room of mine into a game room. I have had 2 guys come over and give me estimates on what it would cost for 3 more dedicated circuits and a bunch of outlets. trying to figure out what I REALLY need as far as electric for the rooms. Since I have not done this before I don't know if the first soultion is overkill or not. The first guy that gave the estimate was pro all the way and I know could do the job but I don't want a over engineered solution. I just want to fire up my games without frying them, or burning down the house, switchable would be nice.

1) electrician #1 - so this guy I thought knew his stuff, but I felt that he was giving me a commerical solution to my problem. He suggested 4 new circuits, 9 single plug outlets, 3 outlets in the ceiling for neon, and something called a contactor & enclosure and bring four(4) 20A controlled circuits to game room from main panel. I guess this contactor will allow for turning on the entire room with a single switich even though they are on different circuits (walmart,Target,Kmart style). He would also install 9 dimmable canned lights in the room (I would need another guy to patch up the room after all this was installed) (2300 bucks)

2) handyman - "not too sure on the electric, I'll have to talk to my partner". He really could not give me a price on it, so he gave me a quote on just closing the room where the railing was, $400 for that job including mats, which seemed pretty reasonable. He would put up the drywall, tape, mud, sand, paint...I guess thats why they are handmen and not electricians...I don't know but I don't really feel comfortable with him wiring the room.

so, I guess the question really is, what do I need? Do I need 9 outlets on 3 walls? or can I use a powerstrip? what do you guys use? The contactor was close to 700 bucks installed, the outlets were close to 900 installed, the rest was for the lights.

Please help, feeling overwhelmed right now. I only want to do this once but I don't want to put a dress on a pig, I bought my house 7 years ago for 230k, im refi'ing on it friday and the appraisal came back at 150...im lucky I even qualified for the refi.

Doug
 
Sounds about like what I had my new shop wired for. :D

Dedicated circuits (1 110v and 1 220v) for the AC units and one circuit for each wall... + lights.

Price isn't bad at all for the work being proposed.
 
As far as the can lights, you should not have anything to patch. You can buy ones that all you do is run the wire, drill the hole, hook up wires to the light and it just snaps into the celling. From the last picks you posted the $400 to close in the area might not be to bad, but would be very east to do on you own with very little tools. I would get a few more prices on the electric work. If you are having someone come out and do the work no need to use power strips just have enough plugs for the games, I am going through this my self but it is more like new work and I am doing it my self, but I do live nextdoor to an electriction and he has told me any time I have a question just ask.
 
I'm not an electrician so take this with a grain of salt but here is what I think.

I'm pretty sure a 20A circuit is a 20A circuit weather you wire 1 outlet or 20. Bottom line is you run too many amps on that circuit and the wires can run hot which is bad or they can trip the circuit breaker. Electrical circuits are usually chained together and not home ran from each individual outlet to the circuit.

I would think if you wanted to cut cost you could change his plan and go with the 4 circuits he wants to run but instead of having one point with one switch you flip to turn everything on at once you could have the wiring run to one location on one wall that would essentially have 4 switches. Or 1 switch for each circuit. To allow a bit more flexibility you could go with double gang 4 outlet plug set up. This just means you have 4 outlets that end in one location in a single face plate. All four outlets in that location will be on one circuit. So you can plug four plugs into that one circuit before you would need to use a power strip.

Note* I should point out that the double gang 4 outlet set up is basically two standard 2 plug connectors placed together. So this still basically equals 8 connectors with 2 outlets per VS the 9 he suggested.

Yes you should be able to use power strips as long as you are not running more amps than the power strip or circuit is rated for.

I would think the biggest concern would actually be the ceiling as you don't want visible cords running everywhere. the games will cover the cords along the walls but if you mount anything high it's nice to have an outlet right there to avoid cords being visible.

personally I'd cut out the contactor switch and the dimable lights. I'd just put in standard lighting and save a few bucks on the switches VS dimmers. The lights from the games will more than light the room and when you want light for a repair or whatever you will want as much as you can get.
 
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What you need as far as circuits will depend on the amount of electricity you need. What all do you want to be able to have on at the same time? That would include everything plugged in to the outlets: arcade machines, pinball machines, neon lights, etc. Different machines have different needs. Also, their electrical use spikes on power up then goes down. Pinball machines will use more during multi-ball and at other times when there is a lot going on.

Circuits should be loaded at 80% of the ampherage. That means 16 amps for a 20 amp circuit. Better to have too many or run them at less than 80% than to have too few or run them over 80%.
 
Do you want to be able to turn banks of machines on / off via a wall switch or is it OK to simply turn them on / off via the switch on the arcade machine? Depending on how they are arranged, you might need a way besides via the arcade machine. Keep in mind that if you have a 20 amp circuit and 6 machines that does not mean you can plug all 6 machines into a cheap 15 amp outlet strip and plug that into the 20 amp circuit. The outlet strip might be overloaded. You might need two outlet strips with 3 machines plugged into each.
 
in a ideal situation I would like to switch on banks of machines via switch, I don't think I need one switch to power up the entire room room though. I could flip on several switches. I do not like the idea of turning every game on manually, if the games are stacked it may become a problem down the line.
 
A real answer can't be given here without fully understanding what the load is you're looking at. Talking about 1 circuit vs. 20 makes no sense without knowing how many machines you plan to use.

I'm an Electrical Engineer, so if it were me I'd be doing the work myself and would probably go the contactor route if I wanted to get real fancy. If I wanted to keep it real simple and cheap then I'd just switch using the breakers if the panel is located conviently.

It sounds like you're already upside down on the house so this can't be considered an "investment" of any type, so the quesion is down to what you actually NEED.

1. What all are you planning to connect? i.e. how many vids? how many pinballs? anything else?

2. How much realistic expansion room do you want to plan for additional games down the road. Be realistic, not pie-in-the-sky fantasies.
 
As an electrician myself a lot of my mates have asked me to wire circuits for them

And I have wired my own too.

I have 2 x switches up high that turn on my 2 banks of power points. And from each bank I have 5 x doubles

For a friend, in his converted garage, I have wired 2 x banks of 4 x Quad outlets.

Also we had an overflow area on an existing circuit. So in effect he had 3 x circuits, and as long as it wasn't connected to the kitchen the 3rd circuit would be fine (Kettles draw a lot of power)

I find it sometimes can be cheaper to run 2 x separate circuits rather than fitting a power sub board in the room

To save cost maybe add 1 smaller bank of 2 x double outlets from an existing circuit, then 2 x new circuits with 3 or 4 doubles off each circuit

Machines only need full current when being played, so on average you can plug in more than you think.

The breaker will protect the cable so there is no chance of fire etc if the correct size breaker is used (we use 20A or 16A for power), might be different over there

Hope this helps
 
Unless a circuit breaker is labeled as being SWD for switch duty, they are not recommended to be used as switches. They are meant for safety reasons but not for use as every day switches.
If I wanted to keep it real simple and cheap then I'd just switch using the breakers if the panel is located conviently.
 
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Unless a circuit breaker is labeled as being SWD for switch duty, they are not recommended to be used as switches. They are meant for safety reasons but not for use as every day switches.

Yes, I'm fully aware but for occasional use it really is not a major problem with modern breakers these days. If anything, it may shorten the life slightly of it causing a pre-mature trip if anything.

It is quite common in businesses every day that breakers are being used as switches even though they are not SWD rated.
 
The first quote for $2300 sounds reasonable. . . in NY. Here it costs $125-$175 just to have an outlet box put in. Also it sounds like there is a lot of wire to pull through obstructions, plus the splicing at the lights, switches, panel. The meat and potatoes in that estimate seem to go to the labor.
 
These are some of the costs of doing mine. It adds up. Labor will be significant, especially doing anything fancy.

250' of 12 gauge wire for 20 amp circuits - $80
250' of 14 gauge wire for 15 amp circuits (e.g. lighting) - $50
20 amp rated switch - $4 each
20 amp recepticle - $3 each
new work box - .45 cents each
old work box - $1.30 each
wire staples - $10 for a large container (enough for several rooms)

I've gone through several rolls of each gauge of wire so wire alone has run $400 - $500. That is for four 20 amp circuits on the opposite side of the house from the breaker panel.
 
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A real answer can't be given here without fully understanding what the load is you're looking at. Talking about 1 circuit vs. 20 makes no sense without knowing how many machines you plan to use.

1. What all are you planning to connect? i.e. how many vids? how many pinballs? anything else?

2. How much realistic expansion room do you want to plan for additional games down the road. Be realistic, not pie-in-the-sky fantasies.

sblair is right. You need to know what type of load (number of games) you are going to build the room for. The idea that you can flip a switch and all of your games come on is nifty but unrealistic. If all (3 to 10) of your games came on at the exact same time it would hard on your games power supplies and you could end up going thru breakers like toilet paper. Plan, build, and be happy. If you need to modify what you have for the future put a suspendered ceiling in and modify it later.
 
My gut says 2-4 pins MAX and 6-8 games max to be realistic. The room can hold much more then that but even for me to max out the 8 games and 4 pins we are talking a good chunk of time...I do ok for a living, but It's just me here, no other income with a pretty high mortage (which is why I am refi'ing). I feel very fortunate that I am even able to entertain owning stuff like this when there are so many people are out of work right now.

I thought that using the breaker box as a switch sounded to good to be true...If that was a safe solution I would be all over that.

Doug
 
My gut says 2-4 pins MAX and 6-8 games max to be realistic. The room can hold much more then that but even for me to max out the 8 games and 4 pins we are talking a good chunk of time...I do ok for a living, but It's just me here, no other income with a pretty high mortage (which is why I am refi'ing). I feel very fortunate that I am even able to entertain owning stuff like this when there are so many people are out of work right now.

I thought that using the breaker box as a switch sounded to good to be true...If that was a safe solution I would be all over that.

Doug

2, maybe 3 circuits max @ 20A should be enough. Outlets are really about what is convienent for you and based on the layout of your room. If you want to save money, don't put in a physical outlet for every single game. Make good use of decent quality power strips.

Using the breaker to switch them on and off is fine. Ideally you should use a SWD rated breaker, but it really isn't that big of a deal these days with magnetic breakers compared to the older thermal breakers that would degrade more.

I would get someone competent to do the work and not the "handyman" that you had look at it as it clearly sounded like they probably weren't that comptetent.
 
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