Mysterious Asteroids Deluxe "deterioration"

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Mysterious Asteroids Deluxe "deterioration"

Hey everyone. I have a problem on my Asteroids Deluxe which I've been unable to figure out: the machine's condition seems to be rapidly deteriorating by itself.

When I first got the machine, it had a slight monitor issue which I then was able to get working again. The machine was then in pretty perfect condition, and I was able to play it without trouble.

After shutting it down overnight and rebooting the next morning, the machine said that it had a ROM error in R2 and could not play. I figured that it was accurate that it was indeed a ROM error, because the self-test worked fine and nothing else seemed to be damaged. I then shut down and unplugged the machine and ordered a replacement ROM.

However, now (about 1 week later) I've booted up the machine and have found that nothing works. The lights turn on, etc, but nothing else appears to work. The self-test doesn't show anything and does not make noise when the buttons are pressed, the machine constantly beeps to itself with varying pitches and lengths, whether the self-test is on or not, and the coin-door ticker keeps ticking by itself (it makes the noise and the number changes... obviously I am not inserting coins.

What is wrong with this machine? I don't understand how it could have deteriorated so rapidly just sitting in my living room unplugged.

Is there any way to fix this?
 
Update:

I just rebooted the machine into self-test once more, and it briefly displayed the usual self-test error screen. However, the R2 indicator was flashing all over (the word itself was moving around the screen). The machine then beeped several times, something like "0.0.0.0" flashed in the center of the screen, and the self-test disappeared.

What is up with this machine?
 
Please tell us what you have fixed on the machine i.e. a monitor cap kit, capped the PCB, reseated the chips and so on.
 
Monitor has recently been fixed up by http://www.arcadecup.com/.
I've taken out each socketed chip on the PCB and cleaned the legs with a q-tip. The power supply has not had any work done on it as far as I know.

The weird thing about this is how rapidly it has gone from perfectly serviceable to completely useless...
 
The power supply has not had any work done on it as far as I know.

The weird thing about this is how rapidly it has gone from perfectly serviceable to completely useless...

I dunno - I'd say that's pretty normal. Personally, I think it would be weird if thirty year old electrolytic capacitors worked perfectly reliably.

:D

Check your voltages. I'll bet they're way off, and your 10.5VDC line coming out of the power brick is not steady.

-Ian
 
If I were to guess, I'd say that a capacitor has kicked the bucket somewhere in your power supply. The big blue is a likely culprit (as mentioned by Retrohacker) but you could have a problem with your audio/regulator board as well.
 
I dunno - I'd say that's pretty normal. Personally, I think it would be weird if thirty year old electrolytic capacitors worked perfectly reliably.

:D

Check your voltages. I'll bet they're way off, and your 10.5VDC line coming out of the power brick is not steady.

-Ian

Where can I find what the "normal" voltages should be? I haven't done much multimeter testing before, basically only continuity stuff. What setting should the multimeter be on, and what should the normal voltages be? Thanks for your help!
 
Where can I find what the "normal" voltages should be? I haven't done much multimeter testing before, basically only continuity stuff. What setting should the multimeter be on, and what should the normal voltages be? Thanks for your help!

Set the meter to DC volts (the parallel lines, not the squiggly lines), and put black lead on the ground tab on the AR-II (regulator board, has the heat sink), and the red lead on the 10.5V tab. See what it says. It should be...about ten and a half volts. Give or take a couple. But on your game, it'll probably be jumping around, or way low. If it is, then change the "big blue" - the large capacitor in the power brick. It's really easy to change, and only requires a screwdriver. Just watch the polarity.

-Ian
 
Set the meter to DC volts (the parallel lines, not the squiggly lines), and put black lead on the ground tab on the AR-II (regulator board, has the heat sink), and the red lead on the 10.5V tab. See what it says. It should be...about ten and a half volts. Give or take a couple. But on your game, it'll probably be jumping around, or way low. If it is, then change the "big blue" - the large capacitor in the power brick. It's really easy to change, and only requires a screwdriver. Just watch the polarity.

-Ian


I have a multimeter with a bunch of different settings for voltage: there's a big dial on the front and even within the selections labeled "DC V" there are 4 options (10, 50, 250, 500). Should I choose 10? Thanks again.

Also, there are two different tabs labeled "GND". I assume this is ground, but does it matter which one I use? I don't have a 10.5 either: There's one labeled "+10.3VDC UNR"... is that the right one to use instead of the 10.5? There is also a +5VDC without the "UNR" label, as well as two tabs which are labeled with speaker markings.
 
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I've figured out my multimeter settings and have tested both the 10.3 and the 5 voltage tabs. Both of them appear just great, without any wavering of the needle or anything: the 5 clocked in at exactly 5 and since I'm using an analog multimeter I was unable to determine if the 10.3 was exactly 10.3 but it was between 10 and 11. Is there any other way to figure out what's up? Unless I'm testing the wrong part (I'm testing the board with the heat sink, it is upright against the coin box area), this doesn't appear to find any problems.
 
I checked out the link and the closest problems seemed to either stem from the power supply/regulation or from the PCB. He appears to advocate cleaning the PCB contacts with an eraser so that's what I'm doing now.
 
Ok, I've cleaned the PCB and replaced it... when I booted up I got the self-test very briefly, but then it disappeared just like the other time. Since my multimeter work has turned up nothing, I'm even more in the dark.
 
Try checking the power at the game board itself. The connector on the wiring harness could be faulty, preventing power from getting to the game board correctly.

Also, try clicking over to AC volts on your meter and checking the 10.5v line on the AR-II again. A symptom of a limping capacitor will be excessive "ripple" in the DC voltage, which will show up as an AC voltage on some meters.

I can't help but feel that this is a power problem - as I've seen very, very similar symptoms (coin counter clicking, no game play, also had hum in the speaker), and it was all cured by replacing the "big blue" capacitor. In that case, the thing was really far gone - I couldn't get any stable reading on the 10.5 line.

-Ian
 
Try checking the power at the game board itself. The connector on the wiring harness could be faulty, preventing power from getting to the game board correctly.

Also, try clicking over to AC volts on your meter and checking the 10.5v line on the AR-II again. A symptom of a limping capacitor will be excessive "ripple" in the DC voltage, which will show up as an AC voltage on some meters.

I can't help but feel that this is a power problem - as I've seen very, very similar symptoms (coin counter clicking, no game play, also had hum in the speaker), and it was all cured by replacing the "big blue" capacitor. In that case, the thing was really far gone - I couldn't get any stable reading on the 10.5 line.

-Ian

I did click to AC volts and it did respond with an AC value. Does this mean that I should replace the "big blue" capacitor? Can I get one from Bob Roberts, or should I try to find one on the forum?
 
I would rebuild the AR.


This place will rebuild for you:
http://www.elektronforge.com/parts.htm


Parts kit here for DIY:
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/parts.html#atari

Oops. I misread. Thought had changed the Big Blue but I see someone recommended that. You can buy a BB at the 'Parts Kit' Link. I would do both the BB and the AR fix myself but try the BB first as recommended. If you get the parts kit be sure you get the correct one. Look on your AR board and it will say exactly what it is. It will probably look something like this:

ar2.jpg
 
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I did click to AC volts and it did respond with an AC value. Does this mean that I should replace the "big blue" capacitor? Can I get one from Bob Roberts, or should I try to find one on the forum?

It really can't hurt to replace that capacitor. They're notorious for failing and causing all manner of weirdness. Bob Roberts is perhaps the best place to get one, since he had new ones made up that are perfect drop in replacements. And best of all, they're NEW stock. Freshly made - not some part that's been sitting for years. IIRC they're $12.50 apiece.

Might pick up an AR-II rebuild kit while you're at it, that covers the capacitors on the AR-II board. But first I would change that big blue cap.

-Ian
 
It really can't hurt to replace that capacitor. They're notorious for failing and causing all manner of weirdness. Bob Roberts is perhaps the best place to get one, since he had new ones made up that are perfect drop in replacements. And best of all, they're NEW stock. Freshly made - not some part that's been sitting for years. IIRC they're $12.50 apiece.

Might pick up an AR-II rebuild kit while you're at it, that covers the capacitors on the AR-II board. But first I would change that big blue cap.

-Ian

And according to Bob's site a bad BB can cause many symptoms:

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/bigblue.html

"- Atari's Big Blue -

Big Blue is the huge 2" in diameter blue capacitor mounted in the transformer assembly in the bottom of Atari cabinets. Since most are about 20 years old at this point in time, they have a much higher failure rate now... not that they haven't failed prior to this date... and they create a wide range of problems & should be changed. Symptoms range from not powering up at all to randomly powering up.

Update 2/03: I read in a great deal of emails about Atari woes, that should be corrected by a new Big Blue, that it couldn't be the trouble because they had recently replaced it... sometimes only a few weeks prior. Many hours of wasted time t-shooting later they discover that the Big Blue was at fault. Inevitablely, the next Q is could there be something else wrong that is causing it to die. What is happening in these cases is that they are buying surplus CG caps & they are most often as old, if not older, than the one in the game already & destined to fail prematurely. Often times the value is eroneously thought to be the cause, but any value from 26,000uf to 32,000uf should work fine. I chose to have mine made in a 28,000uf value as I think that to be the best filter for those supplies, but I have used all other sizes in that range, before finding a mfr willing to remake those, without any repercussions. Incidentally, I chose a black wrap to be able to distinguish them from the old OEM "Big Blue".

Update 2/06: Three years later & I still hear the same thing over & over. My problem can't be the Big Blue because I just bought a new one 3 months ago! I know that surplus Big Blues are awful tempting with their prices running from $1.50 to $5.00 each, but they simply do not last in most cases. Manufacturing caps is not my game, so I turned to the net to see what I could find out about this & here are a few things that I found out about that I had no clue about...

Shelf life depends on the control of temperature and humidity... which should be kept as low as possible... during storage. Most mfr's recommended retesting after 5 years on the shelf. I found one that really surprised me, stating, "Even under ideal storage conditions capacitance decreases with the passage of time and therefore should be used within 6 months of delivery date to insure 100% usability. After 9 months a noticeable deterioration will begin." In one military doc I read that stored electrolytics needed to be lab tested after a 5 year shelf period & if they pass, retested periodically and in any event, disposed of as hazardous waste material at age 10.

Most of the Big Blues or other high value, low voltage CG caps found in the surplus electronic stores around the country are from 16 years old to 36 years old, so they are closer to dead than they are to life, albeit from sitting around unused. Personally, I'd rather go with the new fresh cap & be done with it over changing out with surplus over & over trying to save a buck. My guess is that over time the expense of a new cap will work out to a much better deal.

Certainly 100's, if not 1000's, of dead Atari games have been resurrected solely by replacing the Big Blue & I've heard stories of some even found by the roadside waiting for the Grim Reaper to carry them off!

Many problems blamed on the monitor are actually a result of this cap being weak or bad.

Here are 5 Big Blue Symptoms that are eroneously blamed on the monitor.

* 1 Intermittent lightning streaks in pic/hum bars/weaving.
* 2 Blank raster... steady or intermittent.
* 3 Jumpy pic sometimes described as jiggles.
* 4 Failure of H hold to lock in.
* 5 Intermittent vertical roll or failure to lock in.

Note: The symptoms above are only the ones that mimic a monitor failure problem, but a bad Big Blue will manifest many other symptoms from the game being totally dead to the start LEDs flashing to a loud audible hum & more. Make sure you have a known good BB in place before you go tearing down a game hunting a problem that it is responsible for. "



A definite replace and see how things are part.
 
Could the PCB's ROM error that it's reporting be related to this problem? That is, is it possible that I don't need to replace the chip at R2, considering the error appeared right before all the capacitor problems began?
 
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