My Williams Flash Tear Down

When working on a board like this, I find it mandatory to use solder wick. I did the exact same thing as you and ended up bringing up a trace. Ever since then I solder wick everything. My solder pult just doesn't work well on stuff like this. Monitors yes - pinball no.
 
Deadly said:
When working on a board like this, I find it mandatory to use solder wick. I did the exact same thing as you and ended up bringing up a trace. Ever since then I solder wick everything. My solder pult just doesn't work well on stuff like this. Monitors yes - pinball no.
Click to expand...

Wick is good stuff. I like using my desoldering gun, I use it for everything board related now.
 
OK, I soldered in new sockets. Tested it with the leon's ROM on the bench. CPU only. The LED's came on, then went off. OK, checking Pinrepair.com, it says the CPU is F'd if the lights stay on. But it also says Leon's rom is working if both lights are blinking. I said to myself, OK, maybe I should pop everything back into the game, since last time it started up, flickered, then never went back on. When I put everything back in, putting the game roms back in and removing Loens Rom, the same thing happened. LED's flashed on, then stayed off. Annoying. I pulled the CPU board again, removed the game roms and put back in Leon's rom. On the bench, this time the LED's stayed on. turning off the power supply and back on again, the LED's came on, then went off and stayed off. What does this crap mean? I'm not really seeing this on pinrepair. As always, much obliged for the help.
 
dieseldogpi said:
OK, I soldered in new sockets. Tested it with the leon's ROM on the bench. CPU only. The LED's came on, then went off. OK, checking Pinrepair.com, it says the CPU is F'd if the lights stay on. But it also says Leon's rom is working if both lights are blinking. I said to myself, OK, maybe I should pop everything back into the game, since last time it started up, flickered, then never went back on. When I put everything back in, putting the game roms back in and removing Loens Rom, the same thing happened. LED's flashed on, then stayed off. Annoying. I pulled the CPU board again, removed the game roms and put back in Leon's rom. On the bench, this time the LED's stayed on. turning off the power supply and back on again, the LED's came on, then went off and stayed off. What does this crap mean? I'm not really seeing this on pinrepair. As always, much obliged for the help.
Click to expand...

The first thought that comes to mind is that it's partially running the software. The way the board works is that the LED's are going to be on until the CPU turns them off via the switching through the PIA.

What happens if you hit the reset button on the CPU board when they're on? If it cycles, then stays off, check for 5v at pin 8 of the CPU chip, could be a power issue.

Also check that you're getting the correct voltages out of the power supply. Are you feeding the board 12v and 5v? Or just doing the 5v and jumpering the board (I hate this method).

I'd also check for continuity of all chip pins, might be a trace issue somewhere.

-Hans
 
as far as power, I followed how it was done on pinrepair.com, pin 1= ground, pin 5= 5 volt, pin 9=12 volt. i am going to check the continuity now to check the traces. Then I will look into the power at the CPU and post again.
 
I forgot to mention that at any point that the board was powered, if the LED's stayed on, and I hit the diagnostic button, the led's will go off. Is there a way to check main chip?
 
dieseldogpi said:
I forgot to mention that at any point that the board was powered, if the LED's stayed on, and I hit the diagnostic button, the led's will go off. Is there a way to check main chip?
Click to expand...

Is this with the driver board attached or separate?

Is IC19 in a socket? Try removing it and running the test again.

I forgot to add in my last one, were you hitting the diagnostic button with the game chips in place or with the test rom? Try it with just the test rom, and none of the game chips installed.

-Hans
 
I kind of skimmed the thread but this is what I would do.

Start by triple checking the jumpers to make sure they're correct for the EPROM you're using in U17.

Pull the MPU out of the game and pull any socketed RAM, ROM or PIA leaving only the CPU and Test ROM. Then check the reset circuit. Williams MPUs have a nice long reset so it's easy to check. Pin 40 on the CPU should start low when power is applied then go high. Then check the clock signal. Both tests will require a logic probe and both are required for the CPU to even think about booting. Then you can check the address, data and chip select lines at the EPROM. Once you have the CPU booting and running the test ROM you can add and test the other ICs one at a time. Or just throw them all in and test them all at once addressing any individual problems if there are any. That's probably what I would do but adding and IC at a time should make troubleshooting easier should there be a bad component somewhere.

It's best to start with the basics and get the CPU running the test ROM code in U17 and build out from there. You need a systematic approach. Fortunately there is a systematic approach explained in great detail on pinrepair.com:

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index2.htm#leon
 
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HHaase said:
Is this with the driver board attached or separate?

Is IC19 in a socket? Try removing it and running the test again.

I forgot to add in my last one, were you hitting the diagnostic button with the game chips in place or with the test rom? Try it with just the test rom, and none of the game chips installed.

-Hans
Click to expand...

IC19 is not in a socket. Is it worth desoldering and trying again. When I run the test, its only the CPU board, with the test rom in IC 17, and IC1 and IC5 still in (as far as socketed IC's go).

Lindsey said:
Pull the MPU out of the game and pull any socketed RAM, ROM or PIA leaving only the CPU and Test ROM. Then check the reset circuit. Williams MPUs have a nice long reset so it's easy to check. Pin 40 on the CPU should start low when power is applied then go high. Then check the clock signal. Both tests will require a logic probe and both are required for the CPU to even think about booting. Then you can check the address, data and chip select lines at the EPROM. Once you have the CPU booting and running the test ROM you can add and test the other ICs one at a time. Or just throw them all in and test them all at once addressing any individual problems if there are any. That's probably what I would do but adding and IC at a time should make troubleshooting easier should there be a bad component somewhere.

It's best to start with the basics and get the CPU running the test ROM code in U17 and build out from there. You need a systematic approach. Fortunately there is a systematic approach explained in great detail on pinrepair.com:

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index2.htm#leon
Click to expand...
I don't have a logic probe, I guess I am going to need one. And of course I have been to pinrepair.com, but for a first timer, its not as easy of a read as the seasoned pros think. Thats why I go back and forth between here and there all day.
 
dieseldogpi said:
IC19 is not in a socket. Is it worth desoldering and trying again. When I run the test, its only the CPU board, with the test rom in IC 17, and IC1 and IC5 still in (as far as socketed IC's go).


I don't have a logic probe, I guess I am going to need one. And of course I have been to pinrepair.com, but for a first timer, its not as easy of a read as the seasoned pros think. Thats why I go back and forth between here and there all day.
Click to expand...

Luckily logic probes are cheap.

What I did the first time was went through the Pin Repair guides and followed every step even if it didn't apply to my game. I wanted to make sure that everything measured and responded like it was described in Clay's guide.

I will have to read the guide again because it was 5-6 years ago when I restored this game but I recall there being an answer for everything:

http://gallery.metahugh.com/main.php?g2_itemId=15562

If the issue points to a chip and its not socketed, socket it :) If you have a desoldering gun this makes the work much easier because you can remove the IC without damaging it. Worst case you have a socketed chip where there was none before.
 
Thanks metahugh, I ordered one. Ialso ordered more sockets from great planes as well as the high voltage kit, figured while I was ordering stuff.

On another note, I pulled IC19 as you mentioned Hans, powered only the cpu board with the test rom in, no game roms. Same thing happened. led's came on, then stayed off. So I guess at this point I wait for the logic probe then go through the board in the systemiatic manner laid out on pinrepair....but should I be expecting that this means one of the other IC's are bad on the CPU, is it most likely the main chip since the test rom never runs? Could it just be anything thin on this board? Just trying to get an idea of what I am in for or what to expect, thanks guys.
 
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dieseldogpi said:
I don't have a logic probe, I guess I am going to need one. And of course I have been to pinrepair.com, but for a first timer, its not as easy of a read as the seasoned pros think. Thats why I go back and forth between here and there all day.
Click to expand...

I know it's not easy. Remember that we were all in your shoes at one point. Getting the logic probe is a big step. You'll have it booting in no time :)
 
dieseldogpi said:
Thanks metahugh, I ordered one. Ialso ordered more sockets from great planes as well as the high voltage kit, figured while I was ordering stuff.

On another note, I pulled IC19 as you mentioned Hans, powered only the cpu board with the test rom in, no game roms. Same thing happened. led's came on, then stayed off. So I guess at this point I wait for the logic probe then go through the board in the systemiatic manner laid out on pinrepair....but should I be expecting that this means one of the other IC's are bad on the CPU, is it most likely the main chip since the test rom never runs? Could it just be anything thin on this board? Just trying to get an idea of what I am in for or what to expect, thanks guys.
Click to expand...

There's only a few things that can keep the CPU from booting. All it really needs is the processor, IC17 ROM, timing chip, and the PIA that controls the LED's. (plus a couple other logic chips)

Have you made up a test LED yet? Using a test LED, what is pin 15 on IC1 doing?

Sorry I haven't been following much lately, been a busy few days here. I'd love to find a site with an easy to read set of schematics for the system 4's, to start tracing out the address and data bus paths.

-Hans
 
quick update: still waiting on the logic probe (ordered it last thursday evening, just got an email this morning that my orderi s being processed, not even shipped). I did build a test LED and did not get any blinking, ionly solid ons or offs. I had de-soldered IC19 last week and ordered more sockets which I received today. Now when I put IC19 back in, the LED's stay lit when the main board is powered. I don't know if this means anything since even without IC19 in the board is not booting properly, but does this mean IC19 is bad too?
 
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