My Williams Flash Tear Down
- Thread starter dieseldogpi
- Start date
Lindsey
Well-known member
. .
Right on Lindsey!
Trust us, with this machine, you need to replace all the sockets no matter what the cost if you want it to work correctly now and down the road.
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dieseldogpi
Member
I don't think the sockets in the board are the scanbe type. The scanbe's are solid plastic correct? Mine have cut-outs where you can see the pcb. I don't care bout the cost.....how much can a socket cost? I was more curious if I should just go and replace all the chips themselves...not just sockets.
Lindsey
Well-known member
Just start with the sockets. Scanbee or not they need to go. Sockets are really cheap. Just time consuming. I would get a set of EPROMs too if you're getting a test ROM. Then you know what you're working with. I wouldn't replace any other ICs unless you find them to be bad.
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dieseldogpi
Member
Ok. Sounds good. I will replace every socket. Where is the best place to get sockets? Also...I think I'm a little bit confused. You said to get a set of EPROMs, but don't start replacing the IC's. I thought they were one in the same....I thought the EPROM was the program on the IC. I know this may sound stupid....but I want to get things clear. Thanks for all the info guys.
-Scott
-Scott
HHaase
Active member
An EPROM is a type of ROM chip, which holds data. This is opposed to, say, a processor chip (CPU), logic chip, RAM, or other type of chip. Normally we refer to the sub-type, as it helps narrow down which one we're talking about when there are potentially dozens on any given board.
The EPROM that you got already was the game ROM, and that replaced the three corroded ones that were smaller capacity. There are still the other two that hold the operating system, those were other ones I talked about. If you want, I can do those too for you.
We're talking about replacing all the sockets themselves, don't worry about the soldered-in chips. The sockets are what tend to cause the problems. The sockets you have are not the notorious Scanbe version, the RN's are decent, but at 30 years old they can have issues too. I don't really care for either brand, to be honest, as they are "Single Wipe" meaning that they only contact against one side of the chip leg. A "Double wipe" that contacts both sides is much more reliable, as are "Machined Pin" sockets like most guys use. For the EPROM sockets, those are under a buck each. The CPU is in a bigger socket, that one usually runs $1.50 for a machined pin socket. I always get my stuff from Ed at Great Plains Electronics.
-Hans
The EPROM that you got already was the game ROM, and that replaced the three corroded ones that were smaller capacity. There are still the other two that hold the operating system, those were other ones I talked about. If you want, I can do those too for you.
We're talking about replacing all the sockets themselves, don't worry about the soldered-in chips. The sockets are what tend to cause the problems. The sockets you have are not the notorious Scanbe version, the RN's are decent, but at 30 years old they can have issues too. I don't really care for either brand, to be honest, as they are "Single Wipe" meaning that they only contact against one side of the chip leg. A "Double wipe" that contacts both sides is much more reliable, as are "Machined Pin" sockets like most guys use. For the EPROM sockets, those are under a buck each. The CPU is in a bigger socket, that one usually runs $1.50 for a machined pin socket. I always get my stuff from Ed at Great Plains Electronics.
-Hans
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dieseldogpi
Member
thanks Hans, so of I replace the other two EPROM's, do I still need the Leon's test ROM?
HHaase
Active member
Yes. The test chip does diagnostics only, you install it instead of one of the regular EPROMS to do the testing, and take it back out when you're done.
-Hans
-Hans
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dieseldogpi
Member
So I installed the other two EPROMs, turned it on, and the displays turned on (first time) and the playfield lights (like the actual game lights) were on. both were fluttering though. I turned the game off and on, then back to nothing. When testing the main board alone after this, the LED's came on and went off right away, like they were doing originally. I turned the game off and on a couple of times. I heard a chime one time, still dead LED's. Another time I only got the bottom LED on.
I'm guessing the issue at this point could be the sockets and bad contacts. So I guess replace these and take it from there?
Also, when I checked it again with out the driver board, the LED's stay on. So then its something on the main board?
Then I checked the main board with the Leon's test ROM in, the LED's stayed lit. So that means the boot up process is not passing the IC17 part? This could be the socket?
I'm guessing the issue at this point could be the sockets and bad contacts. So I guess replace these and take it from there?
Also, when I checked it again with out the driver board, the LED's stay on. So then its something on the main board?
Then I checked the main board with the Leon's test ROM in, the LED's stayed lit. So that means the boot up process is not passing the IC17 part? This could be the socket?
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HHaase
Active member
If the test ROM is only giving you steady LED's, then it's not booting completely, and there are very few things that would cause that. But the fact that you were getting some activity would make me, initially, consider the CPU and clock circuits to be ok.
Sockets would definitely be my next step. Normally a failed chip would cause bigger problems than that, anything "fluttering" is usually a bad connection issue.
-Hans
Sockets would definitely be my next step. Normally a failed chip would cause bigger problems than that, anything "fluttering" is usually a bad connection issue.
-Hans
Lindsey
Well-known member
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dieseldogpi
Member
Ordered....I'm a little thick headed sometimes
I would test this on the bench instead of in the game, especially if you haven't rebuilt the power supply. With this era of game I replace all of the headers and capacitors on the power board just to be sure. Follow Clays guides to a T.
Take an old PC power supply and use that for testing. If interested I can put a picture up of my setup. The newer power supplies do not have a physical switch like the old AT Computer power supplies so you have to wire one in.
Replace every socket that is going to hold a ROM without a doubt.
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dieseldogpi
Member
How come you can't use a newer powersupply? I have like 4 of those lying around. Thanks.
HHaase
Active member
Either an AT or ATX supply would be fine. As long as it has +5, +12 and ground in it, you're fine. When we say "Old" power supply, it more means not to go out and buy a brand new one.
ATX supplies you need to add in a power switch, I forget which wires off the top of my head you need to add the switch between. Size doesn't really matter, any power supply is going to push more than enough power for these boards..... the boards themselves draw well under 100 watts. I'm using a real old 150w supply out of a Dell mico-desktop.
-Hans
Lindsey
Well-known member
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dieseldogpi
Member
OK, I received the new sockets. I was removing the old sockets last night when one of the traces pulled up on the top of the borad. You can see in the pic.
The trace goes from IC 20 pin 4 to IC17 pin 4. My question is, what is the best way to fix this? Should I put some solder on the end that is sticking up and hope it stays down, or should I run a wire between the two pins on the bottom? If I do the wire on the bottom, should I completly remove the top trace? Thanks.
The trace goes from IC 20 pin 4 to IC17 pin 4. My question is, what is the best way to fix this? Should I put some solder on the end that is sticking up and hope it stays down, or should I run a wire between the two pins on the bottom? If I do the wire on the bottom, should I completly remove the top trace? Thanks.
HHaase
Active member
If the full trace is still there, I'd solder it down at the end. You can then "glue" the rest of it back down with some clear nail polish.
-Hans
-Hans
