My Star Wars wants to turn to the dark side

SaminVA

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I just got my Star Wars working, had to re seat all the chips on the board to get it playing blind, then I had to replace my Wintron to get the Amplifone monitor working again. After all that it was working great till I left it on for a few hours. When I saw it the monitor was displaying random vector lines. I turned it off and let it cool down and when I turned it back on it was working again but soon wile in attract mode the graphics began to jump and it got worse. In test mode I get 16 beeps and no errors reported but sometimes I also have graphics glitches wile in test mode too. Sometimes it's just very slight other times it's like in the video, just depends on what mood the game is in. Does this appear to be a board problem or monitor problem? I have a Vector Labs SW/ESB kit on the way and I would like to try and find the problem before I install the kit if possible.
Thanks for any help.

This is an update
The problem with the Star Wars board in this video turned out to be a Bad AVG chip. I replaced it with an Arcade Shop replacement and the board works 100% now.
Still working on my second board set.
 
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Well, the SW / ESB kit may help you believe it or not.

Good question on whether its board or monitor - that is always my first Q -

I would guess yours is a board issue, caused by some heat due to the pattern of happening after being on for a bit. The question next is which chip / set? Socketed or not?

The SW / ESB kit replaces quite a few (maybe all?) socketed chips. If you install that kit and dont have the issue, theres the answer and best case scenario.

Also, check voltages when the problem happens - are the boards getting what they need?
 
Had a very similar problem with my Empire Strikes Back upright. Worked fine at first but after it ran for a few hours the vectors started spazzing out. Reseated the filter board and edge connector and it was okay after that. Try reseating yours. If it still does it your edge connector may need to be rebuilt. Also, a freshly rebuilt A/R II won't hurt.
 
Here's an update,
Before I installed my Vector Labs SW/ESB kit I decided to test the sound board on my non working board set. I had to remove the sound board anyway so I put it on my working board and fired it up and no sound. So now I know the sound board is bad on that board set. I decided not to try and test the main board or vector board with any of my working boards, I was afraid I would mess up my working boards so I decided to install the SW/ESB kit and see if it would cure my graphics glitch in my working board set. Well the Vector Labs SW/ESB kit works great but it didn't fix my graphics problem. Theirs no change, works good for a wile but as the game has been on a wile the problems come back.
So I am guessing the problem is on the vector board, mainly because the SW/ESB kit replaced all the ROMs and PROMS on the main board and I still have the same problem. It's also possibly a heat related problem so I figured the next thing to do would be to take the board out of the cage so I could feel the chips on the vector board and see if any chips are getting hot. I only found one chip that was getting pretty hot and it was at 4B which is a 82S129 PROM and part of the State Machine. Could this be the problem? The only option I could think of was to swap the vector board with the one in my non working board set and see what happens. It was an easy swap and I only had to remove the vector ROM and install the SW/ESB vector ROM board. I fired it up in test mode and I did not get a test screen but I got a lot of boops which indicated bad vector RAM. I checked the 6 vector RAM chips and they were on fire, really hot so I turned the game off. I then replaced the Vector RAMs with the ones that were in my working board and this time I got the test screen but the vectors were all jacked up and missing a lot of lines but I could see enough to tell their were no ROM,RAM errors and no divider or mathbox errors.So next I decided to swap the AVG chip and try again and this time the game came up and was working just like it was with my working vector board. It had all the same graphics glitches as when I started. This told me the prom at 4B on both boards must be OK and both vector boards must be working as both are displaying the same way. I know the AVG chip in my second board is bad. It seems possible that I still could have a bad AVG chip or one or more of the RAMS could have a problem even though they passed the test. Or it's possible I have a problem on the main board. I guess my next step will be to try the main board from the non working board set with the working vector board and see what happens. It was dead but could have a bad CPU or the ROMs could have been bad. If I install the SW/ESB kit onto the board it may bring it back to life. If so that would tell me which board may be bad. In the mean time I need to place an order for a AVG replacement and some RAM and CPU chips.
 
Have you checked the voltage at the game board?
Bad math Proms will cause graphics problems, they usually run pretty hot...would be worth adding heatsinks to them really.

Yep, all voltages are correct. I even checked the 5 volts on the main and vector boards and their fine.
Well I transferred the SW/ESB kit over to the non working main board and wile I did not get a test screen I did get the beeps and boops,rather more boops than beeps. It was telling me I had a bad RAM on the main board which I changed and it went away but it was telling me the vector ROM was bad as well as all the vector RAM which I knew were good so their must be a problem with that main board. I put the other main board back in and all is back to my regular problem. I ordered an AVG replacement from Arcade shop and have some RAM's and CPU's coming from Bob Roberts so when I get some parts I'll give it another try. I am hoping the AVG will fix my current problem. Time will tell.
 
If the board's symptoms get worse as it heats up try a can of component cooler to see which chip changes the symptoms when you cool it down.
 
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On the main board that is giving you problems, check the 74245 at 0 DE , its the buffer to the AVG board.
omegaman, I assume you mean the working board with the graphics glitch.
Anyone know if the board will run with the sound card removed?


If the board's symptoms get worse as it heats up try a can of component cooler to see which chip changes the symptoms when you cool it down.
channelmanic, yes I did that on the vector board when I noticed the Prom at 4B was getting hot but it gets hot on both vector boards and cooling it and all the other chips down had no effect. I haven't tried cooling down any chips on the main board. I did check the ones I could get to and none were getting very warm but their's a lot under the sound board I couldn't check. Be nice if I could run the board without the sound board.
I guess it's time to get out the trouble shooting guide and read it 3 or 4 times. :rolleyes:
 
Hi

No I was talking about your non working main board that was giving false errors on the AVG board RAM/ROM, did it also report bad ROM on the sound board?

Ok ,on the non working main board I was getting
1 beep
2 beep
3 boop bad 5H on main board- replaced and now good
4 boop RAM 3L on the AVG board This was good with other main board
5 boop RAM 3M on the AVG board This was good with other main board
6 boop RAM 4P on the AVG board This was good with other main board
7 boop RAM 4L on the AVG board This was good with other main board
8 boop RAM 4M on the AVG board This was good with other main board
9 boop RAM 4P on the AVG board This was good with other main board
10 beep
11 beep
12 beep
13 beep
14 boop Normal for the Vector Labs SW/ESB Kit because of a patch in the program
15 beep
16 boop EPROM 1L on AVG board - this was good as it was the SW/ESB replacement board, Maybe bad socket ?
I don't think the self test reports errors on the sound board but not sure. I was using my good sound board wile testing. I have some CPU, PIA and RAM chips on the way, maybe they will bring the other sound board back to life.

After I switched back to the working main board in test mode I got a bad VR Error at 4M so I replaced it and now the only error I get is a boop at 14 which Mike at Victor Labs told me is normal with his kit.
Today I did take my working board set with the graphics glitch and removed the sound board so I could gain access to all the chips on the main board and while it was on and acting up I cooled down each chip with no change so it might not be heat related after all. It also seems to take less time being on before it starts acting up.
I still have hi hopes replacing the AVG chip will fix my problem. I'll do all I can do before I wave the white flag and send the boards out for repair.:rolleyes:
 
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Do you have a logic probe? would be worth checking that 245 on the main board, would be nice to have a spare main board. It could well be the AVG chip on you AVG board or...it could be any number of things. I can fix it for you if you decide to send it out.

You wouldn't get beeps and boops if the sound roms were bad so I guess all is good there.

Have you swapped the math proms from the non working main board to your other main board?
 
Do you have a logic probe? would be worth checking that 245 on the main board, would be nice to have a spare main board. It could well be the AVG chip on you AVG board or...it could be any number of things. I can fix it for you if you decide to send it out.

You wouldn't get beeps and boops if the sound roms were bad so I guess all is good there.

Have you swapped the math proms from the non working main board to your other main board?

Yes I have a logic probe so as soon as my parts arrive I will put both boards sets back together. Wile doing my test so far I have been swapping the SW/ESB kit between the 2 board sets so the 4 PROM's were replaced by the new PROM replacement board. It's also possible I may have some bad IC sockets but I still hope the AVG replacement will fix the problem on the mostly working board set. If I swap the AVG chip from the nonworking board set to the working board it just flashes random lines on the monitor and the other AVG chip works but I have the glitch so hopefully I'll get the replacement soon. My order from Bob Roberts should be here tomorrow or I should say later today.:)
 
Here's the latest update.
I got my order from Bob Roberts today, man I should have got more RAM chips because I think I might come up one short for both boards unless some of the one's I have replaced might be good. For now, sense I haven't got my AVG chip from Arcade Shop yet, I turned my attention to my non working board. I already know the AVG board works as I tried it on the other main board. I had to use the AVG IC from my working board. I also had to add the 6 RAM ICs which were bad and put the vector ROM which was working on my other board before I installed the SW/ESB kit. Next I populated the non working main board with a new CPU and all the ROMs and PROMS from my working board because they all tested good. I also put a new CPU, PIA and RAM IC in the non working sound board. I also put in the 2 ROMs from my working sound board.
I fired the game up in test mode and I now have sound, well beeps and one boop. I also have video on the screen. It shows I have a bad RAM at 5H. Going though the test screens I could see I still have the same graphics glitch which now leads me to believe the AVG chip is bad so thats the first good news. Just for grins and giggles I flipped the test switch for game mode and coined up a game. That's when I found out I have sound and music but no speech. You can hear some pops or clicks when theirs suppose to be speech. The game started and I can fire the guns and I have sound but theirs no stars and no tie fighters, no nothing, you can fire away at nothing and nothing scores and it never ends. I turned the game off and first I swapped the bad RAM at 5H with the one at 5F to see if the self test would report 5F as bad. I also swapped in the speech chip from my working sound board to see if I could get the speech working. I fired it back up and I got the same error bad RAM at 5H so their must be something wrong with the main board as I know 5H is good. I also still have no speech and the game still plays the same with no change. I wonder if the speech problem could be one or more of the 4 pokey chips on the sound board? I guess I can swap them from my working board one at a time and see what happens. At least I now have some life in the second board set but I am dieing to see if the AVG chip fixes my first board set. I sure hope that AVG chip gets here soon. :001_ssmile:
 
Today I got the replacement AVG in the mail from Arcade Shop. I wasted no time and installed it on the board. It was then at that moment I realized it was either gonna work or not work. I crossed my fingers and flipped the switch. Star Wars came to life and I put in a token and started a game. So far so good but it usually takes a few games before the graphics glitching starts. I switched to ESB and played a game and everything was going fine till the game screen went blank then the game came back on then off, it was like watching a youtube video years ago waiting for the video to cash and you would get a little at a time. I figured it was time to put the game in test mode and it reported a bad VG RAM at 4M on the vector board so I cut the game off and DOH, I felt so dumb. I forgot I had taken the RAM chip out of the board to test the other board set. I put the RAM chip back in and now I have no errors reported. Well almost, I still get the ROM 3 at 1K/L error because I have the Vector Labs SW/ESB kit installed. Mike at Vector Labs told me "Ignore the ROM3 error, that is simply a patch to use the new type of NVRAM".
So the game has been on for a few hours now with no graphics glitches so it appears the AVG replacement chip fixed the problem so one board down, one to go. Time to get out the logic probe I guess.:rolleyes:
 
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