Multi Williams Cp Which Wooden Type Would You Start With?

Thomas

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Multi Williams Cp Which Wooden Type Would You Start With?

I was wondering which of the Wooden Williams Control Panels would be the best to start with for a Multi Williams.

I have a few stargates cp and I have one robotron. They are all hacked except one clean stargate.

The robotron seems to be the best to start with because it has the off sets pre sunk on the top for the wicos. However I don't seem to have the correct plates that go on top. Does anyone have a link on how the robotron sticks look with out the cpo in the way?

Also since my cps are in storage does anyone remember if the robotron cp will fit on a stargate cab? Are those two machines the same size width?

Thanks
 
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I think PrOk has those joystick plates on his site. Keep in mind that the big problem with MW panels is getting the reverse button close enough to the left joy to be usable. The plates would make it too far away, I think. Most of the guys cut a notch in the Wico's base to get the button close enough. Another option (what I'm planning) is to use a real Defender 2-way and then relocate the Robotron stick farther to the left. A compromise, but I really miss the feel of the 2-way when I use the Phoenix Arcade or Arcade Shop CP set up.
 
I think PrOk has those joystick plates on his site. Keep in mind that the big problem with MW panels is getting the reverse button close enough to the left joy to be usable. The plates would make it too far away, I think. Most of the guys cut a notch in the Wico's base to get the button close enough. Another option (what I'm planning) is to use a real Defender 2-way and then relocate the Robotron stick farther to the left. A compromise, but I really miss the feel of the 2-way when I use the Phoenix Arcade or Arcade Shop CP set up.

I hear what your saying but the metal plates are not only for strength right? They also help protect the cpo. Meaning the bolts that hold the wico's in place would tear the hell out of the cpo if the metal plates were not underneath.

Plus I thought all the cpo's are already cut so the reverse button sits beside the base of the wico and is not inset. I dont remeber anyone complaining about cutting the left wico um maybe I am wrong...

Thanks for your input.
 
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The more think about this the more it becomes clear. Because no one has the metal control panels in stock anymore. The only wood panel you should use would be the robotron because of the metal plates.

The other panels do not have this feature with out a lot of work.

Any other thoughts?

Man we need some artwork specifically designed for the jrok boards real bad.
 
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Damn the robo is not going to work either. The joysticks are perfectly spaced. The multi has the right joystick up higher than the left on the robotron...

Well I guess I have no choice but to use a stargate...
 
Dude, you don't poke the bolts through the CPO! The correct way to mount joysticks on a Williams CP is to use T-nuts and bolt from the bottom.

Drill the holes for the joystick and then countersink on the top of the CP for the T-nut so it is flush with the top of the control panel. Bolt the joysticks from the bottom to the T-nuts and after they are in fill the top o the T-nut with wood filler or bondo and sand it down. That way it is virtually invisible and you get a perfectly flat surface to mount the overlay.

Here was my MW CP after the T-nuts were installed.

attachment.php


Here is the finished product. Notice no boltheads poking up around the joysticks.

attachment.php


ken
 

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Could you build one from scratch? Unless the old ones are really screwed up, I don't see why you'd want to mess one of 'em up.

I'm in the process of building control panels for my Defender machine. . let me know if you have any questions, etc.
 
Check Frizz's out and then check mine. If you look right around the joystick you will see the bolt heads on his. No bolt heads on mine. Nice and smooth.

The original Willams control panels did it with T-nuts and did not have bolt heads sticking through.

ken
 
Okay here are two pictures. One has all the cp's that I am working on. More on the other shot below.

http://mrcade.com/multi_williams/

The robotron will not work for the multi. With out a lot of work plus it would be a shame to mess it up more. It not in that bad of shape really. So what I want to ask is why has wood been removed from the top of the cp? Is this not where the metal plates would go? How would the bolts be attached to this beast then?

Based on the two different multi's cpo's I have seen not one hole is right for the cp no matter which cp I use. It looks like I need to fill all the holes on the hacked up stargate then drill new holes so they line up with the multi cpo man... I dont have the cpo in hand so it's making this a little harder for me than it should. So does any of the button holes line up at all?

You know I have come to realize that not only is the reverse button off on the multi but all the thrust, fire & smart bombs have been moved quite a bit to the right as well.

No matter how you slice it the multi just isn't going to be the same. It's off all over the place. lol

-----
In this other Picture I am trying to show the color of the wico leaf bases. I have found the the gray leaf bases give you a longer rake than the black leaf bases. So which one is best for the multi and which one is best for a stock robotron or is the rake between the two bases negligible. Sure seems like the black are a lot smaller rake wise.

-----

Now I need to find kens post about hooking the real deal cp up to a jrok and switching them out base on the game you want to play. I seems like no matter what the multi cp is just funky...
 
Here is an awesome post by Ken so I could use stock cp with the jrok.

YellowDog said:
mrsalvage said:
lmao don't worry to much... Your awesome man! Thanks!

Ps can you shed some light on swapping out different cp's like joust and robotron on my stargate cab with a jrok piggy back?

Look at Dok's williams repro thread... What do you think?

I have been following Dok's thread.

If I was going to make multiple panels to attach to the JROK card (I'm not. I'm being lazy and doing the one all-purpose control panel) I would do something like this:

Code:
[FONT=courier]

+---+
| J |  Player 1 Controls      +---+
| A |=========[] []===========| C |
| M |                         | P |
| M |=========[] []===========| 1 |
| A |  Player 2 Controls      +---+
+---+
[/FONT]
YellowDog said:
Where the [] symbols represent a plug and socket. You map all of the JAMMA controls for player 1 out onto a 15 pin Molex connector and then map player 2 controls onto a second 15 pin connector. Once you have that laid out, then you map the controls for each control panel into the matching connector. This will mean that unless you splice into the existing wires (leaving the existing plugs) that the contol panels will no longer be able to be used with the original harnesses.

One Layout might be like:

Code:
[FONT=courier]

JAMMA Side           Conn     Plug         Stargate   Robotron      Joust
Player 1     +-------+ +-------+     
UP - pin 2 - | 1 2 3 | | 3 2 1 | - pin 2 - Jstk Up -- Move Up    -- 
LT - pin 4 - | 4 5 6 | | 6 5 4 | -                 -- Move Left  -- Move Left
RT - pin 6 - | 7 8 9 | | 9 8 7 | -                 -- Move Right -- Move Right
DN - pin 8 - | a b c | | c b a | - pin 8 - Jstk Dn -- Move Down  -- 
B1 - pin a - | d e f | | f e d | - pin a - Fire    --            -- P1 Flap
B2 - pin b - +-------+ +-------+ - pin b - Thrust  --            -- 
B3 - pin c -                     - pin c - Reverse --            -- 
B4 - pin d -                     - pin d - S Bomb  --            -- 
B5 - pin e -                     - pin e - Hspace  --            -- 
GND  pin f -                     - pin f - Ground  -- Ground     -- Ground


Player 2     +-------+ +-------+     
UP - pin 2 - | 1 2 3 | | 3 2 1 | - pin 2 - Jstk Up -- Move Up    -- 
LT - pin 4 - | 4 5 6 | | 6 5 4 | -                 -- Move Left  -- Move Left
RT - pin 6 - | 7 8 9 | | 9 8 7 | -                 -- Move Right -- Move Right
DN - pin 8 - | a b c | | c b a | - pin 8 - Jstk Dn -- Move Down  -- 
B1 - pin a - | d e f | | f e d | - pin a - Fire    --            -- P2 Flap
B2 - pin b - +-------+ +-------+ - pin b - Thrust  --            -- 
B3 - pin c -                     - pin c - Reverse --            -- 
B4 - pin d -                     - pin d - S Bomb  --            -- 
B5 - pin e -                     - pin e - Hspace  --            -- 
GND  pin f -                     - pin f - Ground  -- Ground     -- Ground
[/FONT]
YellowDog said:
Alternatively, you could create an adapter that mapped the JAMMA control wires to the original control panel socket. Then you would only need to create adapters for each control panel you wanted to swap in.


ken
 
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YellowDog said:
mrsalvage said:
That was a another very clear post. I will need to study this more after I get home from work. Thanks again for the lessons!

After thinking about it a little more. I posted in Dok's thread as well. The best solution would probably be to run the JAMMA Player 1 and Player 2 wiring out to a set of sockets. Wire them up any way you want, then make an adapter for each of the control panels that maps your wiring pinouts to the specific Williams control panel socket pinouts. That way you are not hacking the control panel sockets (preserving the value in case you ever want to sell them) and to swap CPs will only take pulling 1 to 2 sockets and undoing the bolts.

ken

Hum now I need to find the other post in Daves thread...
 
Jrok with a real multi

These last posts were a bitch to find. Now I should be able to pull this idea off. Ken can you add anything? This machine will be wired jamma only with the jrok only. But I want to use the real cp's to play the different games as well as a multi williams cp.


One thing that could be done would be to make a harness that ran all of the player control wires from the Jamma harness to two 15 pin Molex connectors. This would be the interface to the JROK card. You could then create a pigtail that connected the Jamma wiring to the appropriate socket(s) on the Williams control panels. You would need one pigtail for each type of control panel.

Basically you map Jamma to a neutral format and build neutral format to specific control panel adapters.

By the way, Dok, I am not suggesting that you do this. This is an exercise best left to the padawan learners.

ken

dunno what you mean ;)

What I've ended up doing on a number of harnesses, which I made for folks, is mapping to the Stargate pinout plus adding in the extra inputs, p2 up/down/left/right and P1 left/right.

Stargate is the best as it maps all 6 buttons you'd ever need plus has space on the second molex for the extra inputs, even with the keying pin taken into account.

This all went to two standard 10 pin molex KK 0.156's that you can plug it directly into a stargate harness with no mods, then at a later stage plug into a multi-game panel should you want to.

- James
 
Okay here are two pictures. One has all the cp's that I am working on. More on the other shot below.

http://mrcade.com/multi_williams/

The robotron will not work for the multi. With out a lot of work plus it would be a shame to mess it up more. It not in that bad of shape really. So what I want to ask is why has wood been removed from the top of the cp? Is this not where the metal plates would go? How would the bolts be attached to this beast then?

If you look closely there are small holes in each of the corners of the inset area. These are screw holes. They used countersink (the cone shaped) screws to fit flush with the top o the metal plates.

I'd use the middle Stargate CP. it is already well on it's way to being swiss cheese anyway. Fill the holes (I use bondo. Some people say to use dowels and force fit them in and cut them off flush then bondo.) Then use the overlay to layout where the new holes go.

Based on the two different multi's cpo's I have seen not one hole is right for the cp no matter which cp I use. It looks like I need to fill all the holes on the hacked up stargate then drill new holes so they line up with the multi cpo man... I dont have the cpo in hand so it's making this a little harder for me than it should. So does any of the button holes line up at all?

Nope. That would be too easy!

You know I have come to realize that not only is the reverse button off on the multi but all the thrust, fire & smart bombs have been moved quite a bit to the right as well.

No matter how you slice it the multi just isn't going to be the same. It's off all over the place. lol

Yep. They are a little bit off from the original. But once you play it for a while, it doesn't matter. You are still going to suck at Stargate. J/K

-----
In this other Picture I am trying to show the color of the wico leaf bases. I have found the the gray leaf bases give you a longer rake than the black leaf bases. So which one is best for the multi and which one is best for a stock robotron or is the rake between the two bases negligible. Sure seems like the black are a lot smaller rake wise.

-----

As long as you have 4" shafts, it probably doesn't matter. The longer shafts matter most for Robotron and Bubbles. With Joust, Defender & Stargate there are some who think the taller joysticks detract from the game. Personally, I mostly play Robotron on it, so the longer shafts are a must. I have a real Stargate, Joust and Robotron to compare against (and a Bubbles and Sinistar in the garage and a Defender in the storage unit) and to me it really doesn't make that much difference. It is just nice to fire up one machine and to be able to play all of those games.

Now I need to find kens post about hooking the real deal cp up to a jrok and switching them out base on the game you want to play. I seems like no matter what the multi cp is just funky...

Your last sentence is the truth. It is not anyone of those games but a compromise for all of them.

ken
 
If you look closely there are small holes in each of the corners of the inset area. These are screw holes. They used countersink (the cone shaped) screws to fit flush with the top o the metal plates.

So the base screws in from the bottom and the plate from the top. So I need 8 bolts for each joystick is this correct. What size bolts do you think they are?

What about the t-nuts? Can you buy them @ Lowes?

I'd use the middle Stargate CP. it is already well on it's way to being swiss cheese anyway. Fill the holes (I use bondo. Some people say to use dowels and force fit them in and cut them off flush then bondo.) Then use the overlay to layout where the new holes go.

Yep thats what I was thinking. I am going to start filling that one in tonight. Plus I hope lay down the new cpo for the stargate. She is as smooth as a babies butt.

Yep. They are a little bit off from the original. But once you play it for a while, it doesn't matter. You are still going to suck at Stargate. J/K

lol I will decimate defender and stargate once again! I promise... 100 waves after the first couple months with no problems.

As long as you have 4" shafts, it probably doesn't matter. The longer shafts matter most for Robotron and Bubbles. With Joust, Defender & Stargate there are some who think the taller joysticks detract from the game. Personally, I mostly play Robotron on it, so the longer shafts are a must. I have a real Stargate, Joust and Robotron to compare against (and a Bubbles and Sinistar in the garage and a Defender in the storage unit) and to me it really doesn't make that much difference. It is just nice to fire up one machine and to be able to play all of those games.

Not sure you understood this one. The holes in the base of the wico where the joystick sticks through are different sizes. The black bases are 1/8 or better smaller in diameter so this changes the throw of the joysticks.

The bottom of the sticks hit the side of the hole which prevents a longer throw/rake at the top. The blacks ones make a smaller gate than the gray ones. Length of the joysticks has nothing to do with the throw allowed by the hole in the leaf bases.

The different color bases are just that different and they effect joystick movement.

Your last sentence is the truth. It is not anyone of those games but a compromise for all of them.

ken

Amen
 
So the base screws in from the bottom and the plate from the top. So I need 8 bolts for each joystick is this correct. What size bolts do you think they are?

What about the t-nuts? Can you buy them @ Lowes?

You should be able to. I normally buy mine from a local Ace hardware store only because I can buy them separately in any quantity and Lowes (and HD) usually only have bags of them and would I end up buying more than I need.

Size depends. If you are going to go though both plates with the bolts you will need much longer bolts than if you are going to just bolt the top plate to the bottom of the CP. I think I usually buy #10 - 32. Bolts and T-nuts. I am pretty sure it is not 1/4". That is too big. Take one of the joysticks with you to make sure you get bolts that will go through the holes.

Not sure you understood this one. The holes in the base of the wico where the joystick sticks through are different sizes. The black bases are 1/8 or better smaller in diameter so this changes the throw of the joysticks.

The bottom of the sticks hit the side of the hole which prevents a longer throw/rake at the top. The blacks ones make a smaller gate than the gray ones. Length of the joysticks has nothing to do with the throw allowed by the hole in the leaf bases.

The different color bases are just that different and they effect joystick movement.

The longer shafts will allow for a longer throw, if everything else is the same. If either set is bumping the side of the hole in the CP then you need to drill a larger hole.


ken
 
Well one last post about the wicos. It doesn't really show in these pictures because I can't get a really good picture of the black wico bases. But the proof is in the pudding. If you want a longer throw/rake on your joysticks use the gray bottoms. If you like the joysticks tighter use the black ones.

http://mrcade.com/wico_bases/

These (brand new) wico bases do not have any excess flash around the inside diameter of the hole.

The gray ones are almost 1/8 inch bigger in diameter ( I do not have a micrometer ). I am not sure what the math would be at the top of the stick because of it but if you use the gray bottoms you would have a longer throw/rake. If you use the black ones you would have a shorter rake.

I have taken the white grommet off the shaft and slapped it around in both different color wico base holes. There really is a big difference!

It seems to me you could (get or give close to 1/2 inch) at the top of the ball just by changing between the two factory bases.
 
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