MiSTer vs. MAME vs. arPIcade?

[FrizzleFried]

FPGA will always beat MAME hands down.

I see this stated a lot.

My response: Prove it.

I've yet to see it proven...ever... only "claims"..."statements"...and "opinions". Nothing concrete.

NOTE: I am not saying FPGA isn't better. What I am saying is that I own plenty of FPGA hardware... and plenty of hardware running MAME. I'm not convinced one is better than the other. I've yet to see any comprehensive comparison. All I've seen is people making claims. If FPGA is so much better... it should be rather EASY to prove the fact... no? Anyone up to the task?

FWIW... I can't tell the difference between MAME and the actual HARDWARE in many cases... so I am not sure how people can claim FPGA will "always beat MAME hands down" when I can't even tell the difference between MAME and the actual hardware (again, in many cases...not all cases... but many).

For example... if there were three buttoned up cabs ... identically outfitted save for the Game PCB... one running Street Fighter II in MAME... one running Street Fighter II on MISTER... one running the actual hardware. Who is going to know the difference? MAAAAYBE the guy who is an absolute pro? Maybe? Or is it night and day difference side by side?

 

[jimbodeanny]

I see this stated a lot.

My response: Prove it.

I've yet to see it proven...ever... only "claims"..."statements"...and "opinions". Nothing concrete.

NOTE: I am not saying FPGA isn't better. What I am saying is that I own plenty of FPGA hardware... and plenty of hardware running MAME. I'm not convinced one is better than the other. I've yet to see any comprehensive comparison. All I've seen is people making claims. If FPGA is so much better... it should be rather EASY to prove the fact... no? Anyone up to the task?

FWIW... I can't tell the difference between MAME and the actual HARDWARE in many cases... so I am not sure how people can claim FPGA will "always beat MAME hands down" when I can't even tell the difference between MAME and the actual hardware (again, in many cases...not all cases... but many).

For example... if there were three buttoned up cabs ... identically outfitted save for the Game PCB... one running Street Fighter II in MAME... one running Street Fighter II on MISTER... one running the actual hardware. Who is going to know the difference? MAAAAYBE the guy who is an absolute pro? Maybe? Or is it night and day difference side by side?

If you can't spot the difference(s), then don't worry about it.

I'd put $100 down that I could spot which of those three SF2 cabs was MAME. Between speed differences and input delay, hitting 1-frame links and reversals just isn't consistently feasible, which is why you will never see MAME used in tournaments. I play in a lot of tournaments and the Mister is so close to the real hardware that tournaments have adopted Mister as a platform.

I'll give you another example of FPGA vs MAME. Rock-Ola Eyes. I could play it on MAME all day long and MAYBE get a fraction of my normal scores. Again - input delay just doesn't cut it. I've played it on MAME in cabs, as well as other software emulation like the 96-in-1. Yet, I can fire up the BitKit and hit world record scores, the same as I would on my original board.

I'm sure MAME/emulation isn't nearly as noticeable with games that don't require strict, frame-perfect timing. But for me, with many games, it feels like playing underwater. Playing Super Punch-Out on MAME is damn near impossible once you get beyond the second loop of fighters. The precise reactions just aren't possible.

I don't run MAME in any of my cabs, otherwise I'd probably do a video, although I'm sure there are some out there already.

 

[FrizzleFried]

As a casual player... I'm guessing I would be hard-pressed to spot a difference. I WOULD love to see some comparisons... i'd love to see some MAME guys come up with some examples where they think MAME plays as well as FPGA/original hardware, and vice-versa.

I probably won't find it... but it would be interesting.

I play Eyes often on MAME... and I can't tell the difference between it and BitKit... but I'm just a casual player...

Same with Ms Pac (for example).

I've heard plenty of people SAY that FPGA is superior... though I've yet to see any actual "proof" aside from peoples opinions (which I am not saying is wrong mind you!)...

 

[FrizzleFried]

Ah! Why didn't I think of Video Game Esoterica. He's done a bunch of comparisons...

Here is a NEO-GEO comparison.... MAME vs Mister:

 

[jimbodeanny]

As a casual player... I'm guessing I would be hard-pressed to spot a difference. I WOULD love to see some comparisons... i'd love to see some MAME guys come up with some examples where they think MAME plays as well as FPGA/original hardware, and vice-versa.

I probably won't find it... but it would be interesting.

I play Eyes often on MAME... and I can't tell the difference between it and BitKit... but I'm just a casual player...

Same with Ms Pac (for example).

I've heard plenty of people SAY that FPGA is superior... though I've yet to see any actual "proof" aside from peoples opinions (which I am not saying is wrong mind you!)...

Right on, man. Totally get where you're coming from. If you can't notice a difference, I say all the more power to you. I honestly wish I was in the same boat as it'd offer up a lot more options/alternatives.

 

[bobbyb13]

The greatest part of fpga boards are ease of setup and use.

If you have a MAME box with a fast enough processor and good gpu, it runs groovymame and CRTemudriver with a real CRT and has encoders from Ultimarc or groovygamegear then for most games that show as working in MAME a casual player will never know the difference.
In many cases I think even a hardcore player couldn't tell the difference.
I played a bunch of my old favorites at last ZapCon and I couldn't tell for any of them.
Depends on the game (and ironically it's original audio setup at this point) and the player though.

For golden age games, I have seen timing comparisons where at most we are talking a few lines (not frames- lines) of lag vs. original hardware for setups that are not even as good as mine.

Getting all that stuff dialed in on a PC is a HUGE pain in the ass though, and getting to it to power up and down like an original cabinet is even worse.

MiSTer began as a console biased device but has continued to see arcade core development from a bunch of obviously brilliant people.
I really need to hook mine up to the cabinet I built for it and see how it works.

And I have a Pi4 too but that is for the scratch vector that I am building this vacation so we'll see how that goes.

What an ever widening rabbit-hole this freakin hobby is-