Metal laser-cut stencils

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Has anyone ever made/used stencils that were hard (like metal). I think these can be laser-cut by now ? How thin to they have to be to prevent bleeding/bad edges?

How many cabs would be needed to be done with them to justify any higher costs ?

I've once seen a Defender set for sale like that IIRC.
I'm just wondering this. I know a customer that has a laser cutting machine, maybe they can do me a favor...
 
You would have to use some type of mild adhesive for these to work, and I am not sure how well that would work with more than one color, you might damage the first layers with the adhesive. I don't think you would get clean enough lines without the adhesive. I have friends that have stencils laser cut to use with spray paint and they use thin plastic, like the stuff cheap binders are made of.
 
You'd only have a need for metal (brass) stencils if you were running some sort of mass production or frequent restoration business. Otherwise, you be better of with single use stick/peel vinyl.
 
The original Williams stencils were metal. They had some reinforcement bars to help hold them flat against the wood. Depending on the material, some type of thin but durable plastic would work. If adhesion holes were cut in the non-painting areas, I would think you could get enough adhesion to minimize overspray and get decent clean lines.

I've asked a couple of the stencil people what it would cost to to cut me a Joust stencil (all I need is one, just flip it for the other side). But so far no takers.

ken
 
Ken, any idea why Williams had mutiple, slightly different, versions of the Defender artwork? Was there any purpose to the different versions (eg, to indicate different production cycles) or would it just have been down to tweaks being made to the designs as time progressed?
 
laser cut reusable stencils are incredibly expensive to produce and just as bad to ship. The materials are usually thin and one bend all but ruins them. I've looked into it and even tried it, but at the end of the day the cost was just too much to justify really. By the time you pay for and deal with metal ones you could buy 6/7 sets of vinyl ones. Who is gonna paint that many of the same cab to justify a production run of metal stencils?
 
Ken, any idea why Williams had mutiple, slightly different, versions of the Defender artwork? Was there any purpose to the different versions (eg, to indicate different production cycles) or would it just have been down to tweaks being made to the designs as time progressed?

As far as I know there were only three designs. The original prototype which got Williams in deep sh*t with Lucas (it had Tie fighters and other Star Wars like artwork), the US production run and the European production run.

Now there have been a number of people who have made stencils over the years, not all of them very faithful to the original art. Pus various hand painted "touchups". These could account for some of the differences.

Williams also used metal stencils. I don't know if laser cut stencils would have been cost effective back then or if they were hand cut. If the latter, that may also have made a difference as hand cutting would add some differences.

I doubt they were tweaking the art unless it involved something to speed up production. Generally there was no incentive to go back and redo the art unless here was a production issue or a legal issue. I do know the artist that did the side art for Robotron and Joust was told specifically to make it simple to spray. I think Connie thought they were going to silk screen the art on the side of the Defender cabinets, so he did it with a lot of detail that got taken out when the stencils were cut.

ken
 
As far as I know there were only three designs. The original prototype which got Williams in deep sh*t with Lucas (it had Tie fighters and other Star Wars like artwork), the US production run and the European production run.

I'm talking specifically about the US production art and the differences are pretty subtle, but there (not counting the variation where the position of the astronaut on the sides varies). For example, check out the pictures attached. One has the "stars" on the front in red, the other in yellow. The red dot one also has five yellow "splashes" across the red planet on the upper left side. And on the side pics, look at the number and pattern of yellow stars to the left of the astronaut's shoulder and immediately above the word "Defender".
 

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the european ms pac-man front ;)

You couldnt do a metal stencil for ms pac even if you wanted to and had endless funds :) There are tons of floating pieces.. if you cut that stencil out of metal you would have one big piece and a ton of tiny ones :) Many stencils are like that.. when they have floaters the laser cut thing just doesn't work anymore.

And on the defender front, I know of and have high res scans of at least 4 variations of defender artwork. Some are simple red and yellow dots in different places.. some are reversals of color. The most obvious is the space man on the sides.. most versions it's reversed, on one version it's mirrored. So yes, there are DEFINITELY multiple revisions of the artwork stencils. Probably from different manufacturers or contractors paid to make the cabinets based on artwork and specifications from williams.
 
The most obvious is the space man on the sides.. most versions it's reversed, on one version it's mirrored. So yes, there are DEFINITELY multiple revisions of the artwork stencils.

Yup, I had an example of differences awhile back when I had three cabinets to compare.
All original paint.
And it's not just a matter of "they used the same stencil on both sides" either. (which I hear a lot) There are dot counts, pattern design and line thickness variations amongst them if you really study them.

Wish I had had my good camera at the time. And since they were sitting on my porch I couldn't get a straight on shot of the one side without having to turn them all around.
 

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Wow!

Judging by the angle of art next to the astronaut dude (where the monitor would be), it looks like they simply flipped the stencil for whatever reason. It also looks like painters taped off the edges to "cut off" the art.

-Tom
 
… it looks like they simply flipped the stencil for whatever reason. It also looks like painters taped off the edges to "cut off" the art.

Are you talking about the middle one (where the astronaut has his back to the back of the machine on both sides)? If so, they couldn't have flipped the stencil because then "Defender" would be backwards on one side. They must have had two stencils. I think this is the less common version. The other variation can be done with one stencil, though I bow to Prok's superior knowledge where he seems to indicate that this wasn't the case.
 
The scans I have, it Looks to me like the mirrored spaceman is the same stencil on both sides with some minor mods to handle the shape of the cab.. All other variants however have very minor differences in the red and yellow dots from one side to the other. They were clearly different stencils for the right and left.
 
laser cut reusable stencils are incredibly expensive to produce and just as bad to ship. The materials are usually thin and one bend all but ruins them. I've looked into it and even tried it, but at the end of the day the cost was just too much to justify really. By the time you pay for and deal with metal ones you could buy 6/7 sets of vinyl ones. Who is gonna paint that many of the same cab to justify a production run of metal stencils?

Well....:

CIMG3095.jpg


and there were more than shown on this picture.
This is what triggered the idea. This lot was imported from the US so there should be enough "market" for the stencils. It's more of a group-buy idea.
I have a company as customer which makes agriculture machines. They have a huge laser cutter and a high-pressure water-cutter. Last time I was there the guy was really enthusiastically explaining how it worked because I was showing interest in it. It's great to see it working if you haven't ever seen it, the speed is amazing...

I even dropped the question if they could do something for me and he said it could be worked out.

So if it's impossible to use metal stencils, how does this work with the vinyl one's ? And how did Midway mass-produce them ?
 
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I don't know if laser cutting would be cost effective (don't know much about it), but if doing several cabinets, it would probably be worthwhile to make (even hand cut) some metal stencils. Vinyl stencils are "approximations" of the original look from Williams, which typically had less crisp edges and some overspray due to the stencils not being adhered to the cabinet.

A person could cut these with basic tools for not much money. Shipping them to others could be fairly pricey though. I suppose they could be made from thick aluminum sheet, and cut into smallish pieces (maybe 3 per side) which could then be taped together after shipping. Also, the same stencils could be used for both sides in some cases, by flipping certain pieces of the stencil. This is how I did it with my Moon Patrol stencil.

Wade
 
Well....:

and there were more than shown on this picture.
This is what triggered the idea. This lot was imported from the US so there should be enough "market" for the stencils. It's more of a group-buy idea.
I have a company as customer which makes agriculture machines. They have a huge laser cutter and a high-pressure water-cutter. Last time I was there the guy was really enthusiastically explaining how it worked because I was showing interest in it. It's great to see it working if you haven't ever seen it, the speed is amazing...

I even dropped the question if they could do something for me and he said it could be worked out.

So if it's impossible to use metal stencils, how does this work with the vinyl one's ? And how did Midway mass-produce them ?

The only colors stencilled on pac cabinets (ms pac and pac) are the two bright colors. Black was silkscreened on not sprayed through a stencil. Think about how the pac art is, if you cut that out of a solid piece of metal or plastic you'd have a million little pieces that somehow would need to be held in place to use the stencil.. make sense?
 
I came across this thread and found it very interesting because I've been trying to learn how stencils were originally applied at the factory, and how to best approximate that look when doing a restoration. Pr0k, your explanation makes a lot of sense. It seems like to approximate the factory process it would be best to use a rigid stencil for the primary colors, and a vinyl stencil for the black details. Do you know if anyone has tried something like that?


The only colors stencilled on pac cabinets (ms pac and pac) are the two bright colors. Black was silkscreened on not sprayed through a stencil. Think about how the pac art is, if you cut that out of a solid piece of metal or plastic you'd have a million little pieces that somehow would need to be held in place to use the stencil.. make sense?
 
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