Medieval Madness question??

[WadeLanham]

Who cares about who talked up what? Why let that spoil your outlook on the game? Myself,I don't care what others think about a pin, if it's fun to me that's all that matters. A lot of people on KLOV and RGP love Stern's Batman. I think it's a pile of shit. Crappy little crane to shoot for, little toy joker, I just didn't like it. To each their own, but I don't think anyone should have a predetermined "fun" or "this is the best pin ever" level set before ever playing the game.

If it were only that simple. I don't care what others like or don't like, some things appeal to me and other things don't.

The only way to truly step into a pin without bias is if you haven't heard or read anything about it prior. All I heard was: "The best pinball ever made", etc. PRIOR to playing it. After playing it... it never lived up to the hype. It is a good game, but certainly not worthy of all the praise. It is a collector status game, not the best pin ever made. If it is, and that's the best pinball has to offer... there's no wonder pinball is almost dead.

If I'd found it on location and never seen or heard of one before, I might have enjoyed it more. Or, maybe not? No way to know. And no way to eliminate the prior bias, and expectation that it would blow me away because it'd be so fun. It's the same reason jurors have to be selected that haven't already heard/read about the story. Prior bias and expectations affect opinions. Part of the reason all the pin themes are licensed. Hard to hate a game if you love the theme!

Wade

 

[WadeLanham]

For those that claim MM is the most popular game when they have guests over... I have to wonder how much truth there is to that. How many of those people haven't already been told that it's your prized piece, or that it's worth a fortune, or that it's the best game ever? Are your guests really going to do anything but give respect to your "grail" game?

I've been out a few times to gamerooms with an MM, and it got no extra attention. I even asked what everyone's favorite was, and it was never MM. When I told them that it was regarded by many as the best and most valuable pinball machine, it was returned with a confused look or with disbelief. Hardly a scientific study, but if the game was really that good, you'd think someone with no prior bias would notice it.

Wade

 

[LaserFan]

Interesting..

Wade,

Interesting points...and I agree..

My buddy, Dan, usually has three parties a year. One on 4th of July, one on his birthday in October, and his Xmas Party. Usually it is a "drop-in" party and probably 35-40 people stop by. Out of all Dan's friends only 4 of us really know anything about pins or arcade machines. Dan has 11 pins and 22 arcade machines (one being a cocktail).
I have had the same discussion with people after they have played MM and the reactions have been the same across the board. They are shocked it is considered such an expensive game and so sought after. Don't get me wrong, some people really like it, but it is NOT his most popular pin. I would say his Addams Family or his South Park are his most popular at his parties. Followed by his Indy and then one of the two Star Wars machines. Again, maybe most of this has to do with personal preference. We just had his Xmas party and that is what "sparked" me to start this thread when I noticed his MM didn't get as much attention as some people have suggested it should get.

Love all the opinions and info! Thanks everyone!

Jess

 

[stangbat]

It is interesting to read about the general public's response to the machine at parties. I'm having my first party with pins in the house on New Year's Eve. It will be interesting to see what machines are most popular. Only one of the guests has a good knowledge of pinball values and what is popular, so I'll keep an eye out for what gets played most. However I only have four machines and there will only be four families so it won't be a large sampling and certainly not scientific at all.

If anyone wants to give me a MM purely for scientific and research principles, I'll gladly accept, throw parties, and report the results of my study.

 

[Dr_Gonzo]

If it were only that simple. I don't care what others like or don't like, some things appeal to me and other things don't.

The only way to truly step into a pin without bias is if you haven't heard or read anything about it prior. All I heard was: "The best pinball ever made", etc. PRIOR to playing it. After playing it... it never lived up to the hype. It is a good game, but certainly not worthy of all the praise. It is a collector status game, not the best pin ever made. If it is, and that's the best pinball has to offer... there's no wonder pinball is almost dead.

If I'd found it on location and never seen or heard of one before, I might have enjoyed it more. Or, maybe not? No way to know. And no way to eliminate the prior bias, and expectation that it would blow me away because it'd be so fun. It's the same reason jurors have to be selected that haven't already heard/read about the story. Prior bias and expectations affect opinions. Part of the reason all the pin themes are licensed. Hard to hate a game if you love the theme!

Wade

Good points

 

[WadeLanham]

Don't get me wrong, I don't want it to come across that the game is bad. It's a great game. It commands a high price due to the theme, the time it was released, relatively low production, etc. I'd say the important thing to note is that high price / collectability / hype doesn't equal "fun factor" or "universal love" of the game - that's where my problem with great expectations came from. There's so much taste involved with pinball, you could take the most popular 20 or 30 games and everyone who sampled them would probably pick a different group as their favorites.

Wade

 

[Deadly]

In my opinion what should be the determining factor of the BEST GAME EVER is:
1.) Which pin is still largely found on route.
2.) Production run numbers.

I'd sure have to guess that machine would be TAF right?

Seems to me most people get pissy about MM price because they:
A.) Can't afford it - (get a higher paying job or shut up already waaah waah waaah)
or
B.) (Which is me) get irritated over the price because the game is fun but not THAT much fun. (Shut up and get over it already right?)


I love MM. This game truly does seem to have it all from a pinheads stand point. Comparing what game gets played the most from non pinheads at a party ... the harder the rule set or shots the less people will tend to play it is my experience.

But I strongly disagree with it being called the best game ever as much as disagree when people arguing it's not. The true winner should be the one that meets the criteria 1.) and 2.). My .02

 

[aeneas]

If you go play MM for the first time knowing it's hyped up that much, you'll probably get disappointed.. it's better than other games but not 2 or 3 times better, so if you compare it to a game it cost double, no it will not be suddenly double the fun..
(also depends on the condition, some MMs are just not very well adjusted, worn routed games, so don't base your opinion on a game in that condition, like some people do).

I have to say I'm in the same position about BBB.. finally got to play one a few months ago and was disappointed..

Best thing I've read many years ago on rgp about the price of MM: they all cost 50 cents to play. How much a machine costs to own should not influence your opinion (and btw - most people who've bought it can sell it for what they have in it - so in the end it doesn't matter how much you paid for it - I know I won't sell my MM without a loss, but I also won't sell most of my other games without loss..)..
on location they all cost the same for a game - so would you rather put your 50cents in a MM or in a Popeye ?

 

[tec9]

It's really no different then any other collectors market...
Is a 57 Chevy, just another car from the fifties?
Is a Picasso just another painting?

Maybe to some people who aren't familar with hobby....

Almost every hobby has THE GRAIL...and for pinball many think it is Medieval Madness. You can bitch about prices and hype, and gameplay, and even compare it to other machines....but the fact remains Medieval Madness commands the bucks. People love this game, if they didn't do you think this trend would continue like it has? So tired about people whinning about the price of this game...
-Mark
(I was lucky enough to score a deal on MM years ago)

 

[caligirl]

MM and CC prices have always been discussed and dispised, and will continue to be.
Yes the theme of MM significantly helps drive the price, just the same as the theme, not the game play drive the price of Tron and Star Wars arcade games.
Lets face it most collectors are men, and male fantasies help drive the buying habits and 'wants' of most collectors. I personally do not find space themes or midevil themes entertaining, but its my opinion.
I was fortunate enough to get a CC years ago for a bargain, and I like the layout(not over-the-top full of toy gags), the 'old school' feel, the art, the gameplay. Ive read many a discussion on why it garners such a price, as many people who consider themselves 'pro' players think the game play is too basic. As a CC owner, I find that at parties it is the favored game of all my pins for the exact same reasons that I like it. I do not judge those that dont understand or appriciate the game, or the price it comands.

As for MM, the few times I have played it, it is ok. Not something I have ever felt the need to own, just because for me it has yet to be 'that much fun'. And if I ever did get to the point of liking it enough to want to buy it, the price would likely make me never purchase it, because my mind just cant justify the cost.

 

[RareHero]

i have a possible answer to this question. many people in this day in age simply can not think for themselves. someone somewhere a few years ago said this is the must have pin everyone must own

Ding Ding Ding! I've found that there's a lot of "group think" in the pinball community.

 

[taylor34]

Ding Ding Ding! I've found that there's a lot of "group think" in the pinball community.

I would agree with that. I also think that for some reason the games that have you shoot each shot X number of times are the most popular (like AFM, MM, SM, etc). I own SM, and have played decent amount of AFM and MM. All 3 of them are among the most expensive games you can buy, and none of them are my favorites. In fact, I'd probably rank them SM, then AFM, then MM. The castle is by far the coolest toy of the bunch, and I find AFM the funniest game of the bunch. The thing that kills me about MM is that it seems like in order to score high, you have to just bash the castle. You can do other things for points, but when the castle shots are worth more than anything else, it kind of becomes pointless. That's why I liked AFM better, seemed like the scoring was more balanced (well, at least for how far I was getting, which was like 6 or 7 billion max).

Spiderman is a pretty fun game. Rules are pretty straightforward, and it's probably the deepest of the three games. It does get a little repetitive at times though, as every game pretty much plays out in the same straight forward manner (just like AFM and MM).

Would I own MM and AFM? Absolutely. They're really fun games, and I'd own any game once. I'd rather have AFM first though. Would I keep them long term? Possibly the AFM, but probably not both of them. I had a TZ for about a year that I didn't keep either (and it's supposed to be the #1 game), I found it to be inferior to TSPP for the same amount of money. I'm a big ruleset guy though, that's the #1 factor for me on most games, and I haven't seen anything that has anywhere close to the same ruleset as TSPP for the price.

Is MM that much more fun than any other game? No, not really. But when it keeps on escalating in price, is it a bad buy? No way. It all comes down to space and money really. If you've room for 6 games and $10k, is MM a smart buy? No. If you've got room for 6 games and $20k, is MM a smart buy? Sure, why not.

 

[iamjoemamma]

I guess I'm pretty lucky then. I own a 68 rs/ss original big block car, a sweet MM, 2 AFM's and a host of other pinz.

Merry Christmas to me!