"MAMEing" or otherwise converting a classic cabinet is generally frowned upon here...

MaximRecoil

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"MAMEing" or otherwise converting a classic cabinet is generally frowned upon here...

...but making a "Multi-Williams" from a classic Williams cabinet or a "Donkey Kong II" from a classic Nintendo cabinet is generally not frowned upon here. Why the discrepancy, when there seems to be no fundamental difference between the former and the latter?
 
Common misconception that multi boards and computers are actually different, when they are not, is one reason.


The main problem with most MAME cabs is the majority of people that do the MAME'ing are not collectors and have no sense of preservation or style. Control panels grow to the size of aircraft carrier decks and shelf paper gets applied as CPO and sideart.

Most people with the expertise to install and properly convert a classic to a standard JAMMA multi have some experience with restoration and won't destroy or make a mockery of a classic cabinet in the process.

Note in both cases above, I carefully used the word MOST.
 
...but making a "Multi-Williams" from a classic Williams cabinet or a "Donkey Kong II" from a classic Nintendo cabinet is generally not frowned upon here. Why the discrepancy, when there seems to be no fundamental difference between the former and the latter?

I think you will find most are doing this to either beat-up examples or games that had already been converted in the past.

For example converting a williams robotron cabinet that had been converted to a lets say tetris into a multi williams cab that once again plays robotron is fine.
Now mameing the cab and adding a street flighter layout with track ball and spinner with 100 pulsing LED's to it with crappy multi art of pac-man getting a dragon uppercut from Mr Driller is just the ghey .
 
one thing about multi williams and d2k, there running off original hardware (is multi williams?) Unlike sticking a computer in a classic when it was working in the first place. I have no problem with seeing 60in1's if its done nice and neat, but not a fan of gutting a working pacman to put in a computer/2joys/14buttons/trackball/spinner/tron handle/steering wheel/footpedal/49way optical.. well u get the point
 
one thing about multi williams and d2k, there running off original hardware (is multi williams?) Unlike sticking a computer in a classic when it was working in the first place. I have no problem with seeing 60in1's if its done nice and neat, but not a fan of gutting a working pacman to put in a computer/2joys/14buttons/trackball/spinner/tron handle/steering wheel/footpedal/49way optical.. well u get the point

I don't know if Multi-Williams is emulation or not, but either way, it is clearly not the original hardware for any cabinet ever produced by Williams. The art is also not the original art for any Williams cabinet. A Multi-Williams falls into the conversion category, much like the countless Jousts and Defenders which were converted to SFII in the early '90s (SFII boards are not emulation either, of course).
 
Well, when people do nicer restorations BUT with MAME driving it, there isn't usually too many objections. I have a MsPac cocktail (in the album linked in my sig) that is a MAME multigame, but it looks and plays like a MsPac, and I don't think anyone has ever given me heat about it. It was also a converted Burgertime to Trivia and was in horrible condition, so it was no loss at all.

Wade
 
Well, when people do nicer restorations BUT with MAME driving it, there isn't usually too many objections. I have a MsPac cocktail (in the album linked in my sig) that is a MAME multigame, but it looks and plays like a MsPac, and I don't think anyone has ever given me heat about it. It was also a converted Burgertime to Trivia and was in horrible condition, so it was no loss at all.

Wade

That's true, but in such cases, the original artwork (or reproductions of the original artwork if the original artwork is too far gone) is used, and the original control panel and layout are used.

With multigame boards or MAME in a dedicated cabinet, people generally stick with games that work with the existing controls. Like for a DK machine, you would stick with 4-way 1-button (or no button) games. Someone Swiss-cheesing the DK CP for e.g., an SFII layout in order to play more games would probably take heat here, right?
 
Personally, I think those williams multi-games with all the combo art look terrible. I have been thinking about putting just the Jrok board in or just the Arcadeshop board in one of my games and leaving everything else "stock" but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. Games that have been converted and turned in to multis are one thing. I would just hate to see someone take a working game or near working nice game and multi it with all the artwork. My Galaga board has been giving me a trouble again and has been repaired so many times that I am considering replacing it with the Arcadeshop board but only because Galaga boards are a PITA. Thats assuming that board plays Galaga and would work in a Galaga, shows how much I know about them lol.
 
Personally, I think those williams multi-games with all the combo art look terrible. I have been thinking about putting just the Jrok board in or just the Arcadeshop board in one of my games and leaving everything else "stock" but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet.

Yeah, I don't like the looks of combo art either. The problem with Multi-Williams though is, by its very nature it can not use any stock control panel layout from any Williams game, so at the very least you have to hack into original CPO art, or get a combo art CPO.

A Joust Layout (assuming replacement of the 2-way joysticks with 8-way joysticks) could work for Joust, Robotron, Bubbles, and maybe others; the two obvious exceptions being Defender and Stargate. A Defender or Stargate layout could play most of the games with the obvious exception of Robotron and Splat.
 
The problem comes in when people have only 1 arcade cabinet and become "inspired" to put every arcade control ever created on one control panel. MAME can be done tastefully, though. I make dedicated mames that generally don't "hack up" the CP's for the most part. I stick with the original controls, so I don't hack up a Tempest CP with a joystick for example. I don't post them here, because I know the peeps will come outta the woodwork to slam anything that's not "original" or have a cheap ass 48/60 board in it.
Mame also has a bad rep because too many douchbags try to sell their cabs for way too much $ for something that is illegal if the roms are left on the computer. This starts the whole mame vs 48-1 argument. IMO, mame is better than a 48/60-1 board for several reasons, high scores, Millipede being screwed up and screwed up attract modes being on the top of my list. but the 48-1 is just as illegal as mame if you do not own the actual, original roms somehow.
A jrok multiwilliams is a great concept for a gutted or bad conversion Williams cabinet. I would never convert my fully working Stargate into a MW for instance.
 
A jrok multiwilliams is a great concept for a gutted or bad conversion Williams cabinet. I would never convert my fully working Stargate into a MW for instance.

Wouldn't it be about the same effort and expense to restore a Williams cabinet back to its original dedicated state than to convert it to a Multi-Williams? Either way you're going to be sanding, filling, painting, buying and applying artwork, buying and installing a boardset, and probably doing some wiring.
 
I may get some heat here but I think it may be easier to convert a gutted Williams cab to a jrok than restore it to original. I think jrok's can use a VGA monitor and you can purchase pre-made control panels, so it can be almost plug and play besides the cabinet wood/art work.
 
That's true, but in such cases, the original artwork (or reproductions of the original artwork if the original artwork is too far gone) is used, and the original control panel and layout are used.

With multigame boards or MAME in a dedicated cabinet, people generally stick with games that work with the existing controls. Like for a DK machine, you would stick with 4-way 1-button (or no button) games. Someone Swiss-cheesing the DK CP for e.g., an SFII layout in order to play more games would probably take heat here, right?

Yes, probably. I guess it depends on how far the game is modified, especially the outside.

There really is no difference between a typical Multiwilliams and a MAME setup. The difference is there is a good bit of artwork available and a limited list of games, so the Multiwilliams setups are usually pretty decent functionally. Since MAME has sooo many options, it takes a lot of restraint to make a clean package.

Wade
 
As others have mentioned I think the problem with some folks that make MAME cabs is that they don't respect the classics in the same way we do. I've heard many stories of people listing a good condition working classic on CL being contacted by a potential buyer who wants to buy it to gut and MAME it. And we've all seen the bad conversions with swiss cheesed cp's, ugly art ect. I remember 2 years ago I had a ramdom conversation at CAX with a guy I didn't know. I believe it started with talk about D2K and transitioned into talking about our collections. I mentioned that I owned 40 or so games and he replied that at one point he owned about 40-50 classics but they took up to much space so he pulled the boards to keep and gutted and smashed all but two cabs which he converted to MAME cabs. He seemed to be in the camp that believes if you own the boards you own the roms and therefore it is not illegal to use those roms in MAME. Weather the previous statement is true or not I find it very effed up to destroy so many classics for no reason. It's stories like this that make classic game collectors weary of the MAME crowd. That said some folks have done beautiful MAME cabs without destroying a classic. I guess I should also mention that even folks that try to restore classics can do more harm than good despite their intentions.
 
Wouldn't it be about the same effort and expense to restore a Williams cabinet back to its original dedicated state than to convert it to a Multi-Williams? Either way you're going to be sanding, filling, painting, buying and applying artwork, buying and installing a boardset, and probably doing some wiring.


I converted a Multi Williams Defneder cab back to a Defender. I sold the Clay Cowgill's Multi board, and seperatly the Joust boards that came with, Sold the art, and purchased original: CP, PCBs [I had these], and marquee. I had to purchase a new monitor, only because the one that came with it was a bad hack.

Al in all, I was done about the cost of the new monitor.

Saltbreez
 
MAME:
Mame_corner_shot.jpg

mame.jpg

rightside.jpg

pacmatt01.jpg
 
multiwilliams:
multiwilliams_left.jpg

phoenixarcademwart.jpg

arcadeshopmwart.jpg





world of difference in my opinion, that and at least with the multis the machine is still a machine running hardware, not some krap 286 pc running mame with a hacked lcd monitor.
 
I always imagined if I do a jrok board, it would be in a williams cab but I wouldn't change any of the marquee or sideart. Just make the control panel work.
 
...but making a "Multi-Williams" from a classic Williams cabinet or a "Donkey Kong II" from a classic Nintendo cabinet is generally not frowned upon here. Why the discrepancy, when there seems to be no fundamental difference between the former and the latter?

It doesn't bother me if someone MAMES a cabinet that has been converted to another game (i.e. Robotron converted to RASTAN) and nothing of the original is salvageable.

What does bother me, is when they take a really nice cabinet (maybe converted, but all the art and everything is in tact) and then convert it to MAME. Those cabinets should be either traded to someone who wants to restore them, or they should be restored.

Same goes for a MultiWilliams. Right now my Robotron and Stargate have the JROK boards in them, however, they can be restored to 100% original in 5 minutes because I have the adapter harness to use the original harness. I'll probably put the JROK boards in my Defender and Sinistar as they both have issues right now.

Hard to find games or Rare games should be restored even if converted if they worthy of collecting. Go ahead and MAME that Dedicated Primal Rage :D
 
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