Main Site Image Types - Feedback Please.

mclemore

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Currently we have 15 image types for the main database (not counting flyers, which are treated separately, and 3-D Movies which are .mov files not images).

Existing Image Types:

1. Cabinet
2. Cabinet-Cocktail
3. Bezel Close Up
4. Instruction Card
5. Japanese
6. Side Art
7. Logo
8. Marquee
9. Marquee-Alternate
10. 3-D Movie [ya it really isn't an image]
11. PCB
12. Control Panel
13. Screen Shot
14. Screen Shot-Title
15. Pinball: Play Field
16. Pinball: Back Glass

It's time for some updating.

1. It would be nice to add a few fields, such as for alternative types of cabinets, memorabilia items related to games, etc.

2. I'm inclined to rename fields to make them more intuitive to the unsophisticated. Instead of "Cabinet", I'm thinking "Cabinet - Whole Machine (Default)". People often seem to have trouble understanding Cabinet' so they choose anything. Occasionally I get an email as such. I also want to make clear that 'Screen Shot' relates to videogames. You would be amazed how many pinball machine and 100 year old slot machine images come in as 'Screen Shot', probably because 'Screen Shot' lacks as much clarity as 'Cabinet'. "Pinball: Play Field" for example, is worth broadening, since lots of mechanical and EM (non-pinball) games have play-fields.

Proposed New Image Types (including renaming the above).

Cabinet - Whole Machine (Default)
Cabinet - Alternative Factory Model
Cabinet - Cocktail Table
Cabinet - Control Panel
Cabinet - Conversion
Cabinet - Detail / Close-Up Exterior
Cabinet - Inner Workings
Cabinet - Instruction Card
Cabinet - PCB Game Circuit Board
Cabinet - Back Glass (Pinball/EM)
Cabinet - Play Field Whole (Non Video Game)
Cabinet - Play Field Detail (Non Video Game)
Cabinet - Side Art
Cabinet - Video Game Marquee
Cabinet - Video Game Marquee - Alternate
Cabinet - Video Game Monitor Bezel Close Up
Cabinet - Video Game Screen Shot - Others
Cabinet - Video Game Screen Shot - Title
3-D Movie (spinning .mov)
Advertising (Print)
Enthusiast - Art
Enthusiast - Cosplay
Flyer
Game Logo
Historic Location
Japanese Language
Memorabilia (Promo or Licensed)
People

The primary place these terms would be used would be on image submission screens. On game pages, some of the distinctions might just help display order (ie: screen shot - others would follow title).

Additionally, for a few of the few (ie: Alternate Cabinet, Memorabilia), a submitter or editor could add a line of text to display with the image.

- Any suggestions, missing items, comments?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Maybe change 'Japanese Language' to foreign language? I know there are other countries, such as Russia that produced games and labeled them in their own language.

Also, 'Backglass' should read 'backglass or translite'. Depending on the era of game you have they are no longer referred to as a backglass. Infact, in the upcoming generation of pinball neither of these terms will apply... Maybe 'backbox art' is a better category title.
 
I just found some ancient KLOV scrolls deep down in Akalabeth this morning. They predate my involvement with the KLOV, predate the site's involvement with PHP and MySQL, predate the KLOV.com domain name, predate the joining of KLOV with VAPS & TAFA, predate manuals added to the site, and predate encyclopedia game types other than video games, etc. etc.

There appear to be some 'lost' image types that were defined in the 1990s but not necessarily ever used.

"Neo_Geo Marquee Insert Close-Up". I think this type got combined with "Instruction Card". Does 'Instruction Card' actually cover it?

"Sit-Down, Cockpit, Twin, Deluxe, or Environment'. I actually thought we had a 'Cabinet - Deluxe' but maybe I only thought about adding it once as there isn't one now.

"Promotional Cabinet Topper". Is this getting too detailed? Would it just fit under 'Cabinet - Detail / Close-Up Exterior' or should it have its own Category like 'Cabinet - Promo Game Topper'. Obviously they exist for videogames (ie: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=243220) videogames, etc. both as factory original pieces and fantasy recreations.

The second one (Cabinet - Deluxe) I'm already sold on. The other 2.... ????
 
Maybe change 'Japanese Language' to foreign language? I know there are other countries, such as Russia that produced games and labeled them in their own language.

Also, 'Backglass' should read 'backglass or translite'. Depending on the era of game you have they are no longer referred to as a backglass. Infact, in the upcoming generation of pinball neither of these terms will apply... Maybe 'backbox art' is a better category title.

I have Japanese marked in my spreadsheet as a stagnant category we might not allow new submissions on. It refers to the Katakana (w/ occasional Kanji) that appears at the top of many game entries.
ie: Galaga: http://www.arcade-museum.com/images/118/118124210966.png

Regarding Backglass. Noted. I've changed the draft spec to "Cabinet - Back Glass / Translite / Art (Pinball/EM)"

How about 'cabinet-cabaret or mini?'

Yes, and No.

Actually, I already retract my comment a post ago in which I was sold on 'Cabinet - Deluxe'. (My NeoGeo and Topper questions remain). I now think neither deluxe, nor cabaret/mini, nor not even cocktail should be automatic image types.

I propose that 'Cabinet - Whole Machine/Upright (Default)', and 'Alternative' remain as the only automatic always-appearing options.

Then, I think options should be offered on an individual game basis ONLY when a game has known image types listed (like 'cocktail').

Plus side: Simply user experience and reduce data errors (Guess which one of these two photos was submitted as a cocktail cabinet (http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=3504 )

Down side: If a game doesn't have a game type a machine might just get entered as 'whole machine'. Ie: A cocktail might be specified as an Whole Machine/Upright.

Addressing the cabinet type array would not only take care of deluxe, cocktail, and cabaret/mini, but more:

Current types:

Alternative
Candy/Japanese (Video Games)
Cabaret/Mini
Counter-Top/Table-Top/Bar-Top
Cocktail
Deluxe/Themed (motion)
Deluxe/Themed (non-motion)
Environmental/Cockpit
Home Model (non coin-op)
Table/Island
Upright/Standard
Wall Hanging

I'm spent most of today thinking about images and image types. Amazing how fast the day disappears...
 
That is quite a number of images to go through but seems to cover everything. The thing about uploading images is that it tells you "Note: Images don't go online until an editor approves them" but in my case and from what other member tell me is that they hardly ever get "approved". Which puts me off to upload anything else to the database. The idea is great though.
 
The mini marquees sometimes have the instructions on them, but some games had 'instruction cards' that also went on the bezel. So it would have a mini marquee and a move list or whatever that went above the cpo. They also had some 6X8 or so pieces of artwork that apparently were supposed to be taped in the corner of the bezel to advertise new games.

Trying to make order or sense out of the artwork that came with Neo Geo games is kind of futile, maybe you could just have an 'additional artwork' category or something to catch some of that stuff in. It's kind of like how the Jr. Pac-Man kits had artwork that stuck on the side, but wasn't really sideart since it just changed the original art a little bit....


Here's a picture of a neo geo 'mini-flyer', which apparently was supposed to be taped to the machine? It has player instructions on it.

komflyers.jpg


Here's a move sticker (pretty typical with jamma games too of course)

3cbsticker.jpg


and here's a mini marquee that has the instructions

KOF94RedoneEV.jpg


a few didn't, but 'mini marquee' is well accepted as the name, not 'instruction card' even though most do have the instructions on it.

Some Neo Geo games had full size marquees, as well.
 
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Now I'm thinking of adding cabinet type as basically an attribute of cabinet image (at least internally). The idea there is we would have

Cabinet, and
Cabinet - Alternate,

And either of them could be further tagged as an upright, cocktail, cockpit, etc.

If we did that though, it would be tougher to figure out whether the odd cockpit should be a 'cabinet' 'cabinet - alternative'. I thought about changing 'cabinet - alternate' to 'cabinet - secondary design', but that doesn't make it any clearer.

If a game was released in an Upright, a second upright variant, a cocktail, a cockpit, an upright version made in Ireland, and a Scandinavian wall mount, than do we need:

Cabinet
Cabinet - Alternate
Cabinet - Foreign Market

The Foreign Market option would be easy (for games not made in a manufacturers home country, like Atari in Ireland): "Cabinet - Foreign Market / Upright"

Upright is a straight "Cabinet / Upright" Upright Variant sounds like an 'Cabinet - Alternate / Upright'. But what about cockpit and cocktail tables. Are they alternates or not. Maybe just straight "Cabinet - Upright'.

If a machine came in an upright, a cocktail, and a secondary upright, what if the cocktail was rare and the others were made in standard quantities? Or if the cocktail was common, the Duramold (for example) common, but the standard upright very rare. Which one or two of the three would be 'Alternate'.

Or does Alternate just become anything that isn't the default best known cabinet (usually the standard upright)?

A related issue is the fact that an incredible number of games have some weirdo rare oddball variant cabinet as the primary image. For example, Defender shows two different prototypes and a cocktail before finally showing a low quality image of the standard cabinet. Blaster shows the rare wooden cabinet first. Stargate shows an oddball prototype/conversion in a Defender cabinet. Bubbles shows the cabaret. That is just the classic williams games alone. That sort of thing is all over the database.


Defender standard upright could be an 'upright', followed by the cocktail, followed by the cockpit, and then the caberet, and then followed by the 'alternate' upright (if any), other alternate cabs, and then finally the foreign markets. Bubbles would have the Duramold as the Cabinet (upright) and the wood version as the Cabinet - Alternate (upright).
This would work for tbbk's examples and nearly everything else, right?

A little ramlbing, but it's important...

Regarding other comments:

That is quite a number of images to go through but seems to cover everything. The thing about uploading images is that it tells you "Note: Images don't go online until an editor approves them" but in my case and from what other member tell me is that they hardly ever get "approved". Which puts me off to upload anything else to the database. The idea is great though.

About 2000 images a year currently make it through the approval process...either online or straight out rejected. The problem is +/- half are rejected, and the other that don't make it through are likely rejected. So the odds right now of making it through in a timely manner are probably 1 in 4. Since 3 in 4 times people don't know what happened...well, that's not ideal. Thus the rework right now.

The mini marquees sometimes have the instructions on them, but some games had 'instruction cards' that also went on the bezel. So it would have a mini marquee and a move list or whatever that went above the cpo. They also had some 6X8 or so pieces of artwork that apparently were supposed to be taped in the corner of the bezel to advertise new games.

Trying to make order or sense out of the artwork that came with Neo Geo games is kind of futile
..
Here's a picture of a neo geo 'mini-flyer', which apparently was supposed
..
Here's a move sticker (pretty typical with jamma games too of course)
....
and here's a mini marquee that has the instructions
...
a few didn't, but 'mini marquee' is well accepted as the name, not 'instruction card' even though most do have the instructions on it.

Some Neo Geo games had full size marquees, as well.

Ok... I'll change the name of 'Instruction Card' to 'Instruction Card / Mini-Marquee / Insert'

The beauty of the planned changes is that it will be relatively easy to make fine tune in the future.
 
That is quite a number of images to go through but seems to cover everything. The thing about uploading images is that it tells you "Note: Images don't go online until an editor approves them" but in my case and from what other member tell me is that they hardly ever get "approved". Which puts me off to upload anything else to the database. The idea is great though.

I have to agree with this. After taking pics of a very rare cab I own, I was going to upload pics but then saw there were already pics waiting to be approved from 3 owners ago (I tracked the life of the machine).

You can make the site as cool and robust as you want, but if everything requires approval and no one is doing the approving, it is pretty much a waste of time.
 
Now I'm thinking of adding cabinet type as basically an attribute of cabinet image (at least internally). The idea there is we would have

Cabinet, and
Cabinet - Alternate,

And either of them could be further tagged as an upright, cocktail, cockpit, etc.

If we did that though, it would be tougher to figure out whether the odd cockpit should be a 'cabinet' 'cabinet - alternative'. I thought about changing 'cabinet - alternate' to 'cabinet - secondary design', but that doesn't make it any clearer.

If a game was released in an Upright, a second upright variant, a cocktail, a cockpit, an upright version made in Ireland, and a Scandinavian wall mount, than do we need:

Cabinet
Cabinet - Alternate
Cabinet - Foreign Market

The Foreign Market option would be easy (for games not made in a manufacturers home country, like Atari in Ireland): "Cabinet - Foreign Market / Upright"

Upright is a straight "Cabinet / Upright" Upright Variant sounds like an 'Cabinet - Alternate / Upright'. But what about cockpit and cocktail tables. Are they alternates or not. Maybe just straight "Cabinet - Upright'.

If a machine came in an upright, a cocktail, and a secondary upright, what if the cocktail was rare and the others were made in standard quantities? Or if the cocktail was common, the Duramold (for example) common, but the standard upright very rare. Which one or two of the three would be 'Alternate'.

Or does Alternate just become anything that isn't the default best known cabinet (usually the standard upright)?

I like this idea and I think you answered your own question (in bold).

I would propose that the "primary" cabinet be represented by the biggest/most expensive local market variant... ie: upright trumps cocktails, deluxe trumps upright, and motion deluxe machines trump deluxe machines, etc. I say this because the "most common" isn't necessarily what most often comes to mind with a particular game... rather with the exception of one-off custom installations (like what Sega does at Joypolis) the most elaborate or most (originally) expensive variant should arguably be considered the "quintessential" version of the game.

everything else be listed under "alternate" and then can house any number of appropriate tags: foreign market, conversion, mini, cocktail, upright, deluxe, etc.

Actually I think just a good image tagging system would work well in general... maybe you want to specify which variant the marquee was from, or which country the PCB belongs to, etc.
 
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You can make the site as cool and robust as you want, but if everything requires approval and no one is doing the approving, it is pretty much a waste of time.

Yes, that's 50% of what my current project is to address...the queue etc. (the other 50% is to gain more flexibility in the images themselves, like be able to tag an image to a manufacturer instead of a game.).

Part of this will involve logging changes users make to the settings on individual images. I'll likely let 2 or 3 people in first, and as bugs are worked out and I have logging set up, expand access. My goal is to be as far removed from the day to day of the image submission process as possible.

...

I would propose that the "primary" cabinet be represented by the biggest/most expensive local market variant... ie: upright trumps cocktails, deluxe trumps upright, and motion deluxe machines trump deluxe machines, etc. I say this because the "most common" isn't necessarily what most often comes to mind with a particular game... rather with the exception of one-off custom installations (like what Sega does at Joypolis) the most elaborate or most (originally) expensive variant should arguably be considered the "quintessential" version of the game.

everything else be listed under "alternate" and then can house any number of appropriate tags: foreign market, conversion, mini, cocktail, upright, deluxe, etc.

Actually I think just a good image tagging system would work well in general... maybe you want to specify which variant the marquee was from, or which country the PCB belongs to, etc.

Regarding tagging, yes it will be live. This will be addressed on the other thread. In short, I've decided to just choose something and go with it.

In short, options like 'Alternate', 'European Cabinet','Japanese Cabinet', 'Prototype', will be an attribute to cabinet type. That is, one could choose 'cocktail', and then tag it as a 'European Cabinet', and in the image title box once could specify "Made by Atari at their Ireland plant."
 
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