Looking for first Pin...

saturnkk

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I am looking to add my first Pin to my arcade and I have the following on my short list:

1. Simpsons (first one)
2. South Park
3. Family Guy
4. LotR

I know nothing about pinball except that I like playing it! Can I get some good advice as to which of these is the most reliable and what a good price might be for each used in nice shape?

Also, judging by my selection above, are there any recommendations that folks might have as well in case I run into a deal?

Thanks!!
 
1. Simpsons (Data East, not Pinball Party) - $1200-1400
2. South Park - $2000
3. Family Guy - $3500 (if you can find one)
4. LotR - $3000-4000

Prices can vary quite a bit by condition.
FG and LOTR are probably the most reliable in this list in very general terms, due to being newer.

Don't buy anything you have not seen in person, thoroughly inspected with a pinball-knowledgeable friend, and played several games on.

Cash helps.

RussM
 
you might have a look at http://pinside.com/pinball/community/articles/what-pinball-machine-should-i-buy

if you want to spend a bit less than the top of the line, have a look at their "bang for the buck" list, you might get some good ideas there.

otherwise, you just have to play some - find an arcade, a pizza place, a bowling alley, some pinheads in your area, whatever. or if you have a console game (wii, x-box, ps), get one of the emulators - they give you a good idea of the different kinds of machines and how they play.
 
If you are looking for a "new" Stern game you might want to try to find a Ripely's Believe It or Not. Better price than some you mentioned. There are a lot of good ones that are on the bargain list someone mentioned. WCS, JD, JP, TFTC, Congo, etc.

All pins will break at some point. The best thing to do is educate yourself before you buy one. Fixing things on a machine is just part of ownership. Fixing most problems is not too hard, and with the forums, they can walk you through most problems you will encounter.

New rebuilt flippers, not a big deal. Leaky batteries on a CPU board could be a big deal. This is where it is good to know your stuff before buying a pin. Just because it is new does not mean it will not break. You might avoid problems that older machines had, but they will still need to be maintained and fixed from time to time.

At those prices I would consider a Simpson's Pinball Party before a Data East one if it were me.

Best advice is to find one and play it and see if you like it. A game that sucks that never breaks in not a good game. I would rather have to fix things from time to time on a game I love.

Welcome to the world of pins and read all you can and then dive in!
 
Before I got into this I thought my pinball collector friends were nuts and being a bit excessive having 20+ pins but now I know what they mean when they said you either own many or none cause it's just silly to own one :)

My suggestion is get out there and play some machines before you make your mind up because I always thought my favorite pinball was Theater of Magic until I played Demolition Man in my friend's collection and never even heard or played it before. Another good way to test out the feel of a game is through Visual Pinball as it supports DMD so you get the full experience or idea of the rules and types of shots you need to make. Also try to get a machine that is working 100% as your first that way you don't get discouraged from the hobby and try to buy from a referral. All my machines were bought from other collectors referred to me by my friend who is a collector as well. It seems they like to pass their machines around and they normally won't screw you and sell you a machine plagued with problems like some stranger on craigslist would.

If you do decide to get into this great hobby you will want to learn how to fix some of the basic stuff yourself such as changing bulbs and basic soldering. Trust me the first time my friend lifted the play field on his Theater of Magic I was in awe and had serious second thoughts cause it was very intimidating. Here is my Demolition Man for example:

5427977671_5a406d097c_z.jpg


When I bought the machine it worked great for the first night and I did get a TEST REPORT error popping up but my friend said if the machine hasn't been played for a while or the previous owner wasn't very good at the game and didn't hit certain shots for a long time the machine might think there is a faulty switch. You can simply remove the glass, start a game and manually hit all the switches and targets and this should reset that. I did this and still got an error and also noticed whenever I hit the ball into the upper hole the machine would do nothing and go into search mode and I still got an error code. I checked to see if there is a switch I missed and upon further inspection I found this:

5428579140_dc2fe5d7a6_z.jpg


The ground wire had broken off from the opto and got out my soldering iron, fixed it and everything was 100%.

Good luck and keep us posted on your purchase and we can hopefully guide you in getting the right machine at the right price too. The nice thing about pinballs is if you get it for the right price you can pretty much get back what you paid for it minus some replacement parts costs and your time.

continued...
 
I would also suggest you see if there is a local dedicated pinball forum where you live or else you could also join pinballbash.com. You might not know any local pinball collectors that could guide you so I will give you a few tips that were passed onto me.

Before you go look at the machine, head on over to ipdb.org and download the PDF manual and take a quick read through it. You might even want to print off certain pages in case the seller doesn't have the manual for the machine. The one page I suggest you print off is the switch locations page, I will use Demolition Man as an example.

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When you go see the machine make sure it is not on already and if it is simply flip the switch on the bottom right off and then turn it back on after 2 seconds. If the machine starts up and doesn't beep or display "Please press ENTER for TEST REPORT" you should be good. Sometimes you can get this error but the pin will still function and play fine as I mentioned earlier if the machine hasn't been played in a while or a particular switch has been engaged the machine will report an error. If you get this message open the coin door and there should be a 4 button service panel on the coin door. Here is a pictue from my Flintstones and you can see this service panel.

5428496156_1454054c61_z.jpg


Hit the ENTER button and pay attention to the DMD as it will list off any errors the machines detect. You might have to write some of it down and if you happen to miss one just hit the EXIT button and hit ENTER again to re-run the TEST REPORT.

I will give you an example from machine, you might get a message that says "CHECK R.RAMP EXIT SW47 ERROR". This means the very right ramp exit switch #47 might be a problem. I removed the glass and located the switch and checked the wire form and pushed it forward like the ball would to see if it engages the switch. See this image here so you can follow what I am trying to explain.

5535321170_e5ce1583c4_z.jpg


Simple solutions to this problem could be:

a) wire form needs to be adjusted so it engages the switch
b) switch is sticky
c) wires are not attached to the leads on the switch or possibly a break in the wire connecting to the PCB

As you are doing this you will want to be in the TEST MENU -> SINGLE SWITCH TEST.
To navigate it is pretty simple as I believe the two middle buttons are labelled as "+" and "-" and you can already guess + advances the menu option and - goes back to the previous option. Once you have the TEST MENU option up hit enter and it will take you to another sub menu where again you will use the + and - to cycle through the different options.

After you select the SINGLE SWITCH TEST the DMD will display a mapping of different switch locations and when you engage it a block will appear on the DMD and disappear when you disengage it. There are other types of switches as well such as target switches and you can easily test these by just pressing on them with your finger and there are roll over switches such as the ones you see on the out lanes and again just press down on them with your finger to test.

The next test you will want to do is the GENERAL ILLUMINATION TEST. If you notice a lot of lights out this could mean:

a) bulb needs to be replaced
b) bad bulb socket from corrosion
c) break in the wiring

Usually GI lighting is connected in series so when there is a serious problem an entire be string could be affected. If you are new at this I would probably walk away from the cab unless it is priced just right cause it could end up costing you more money in the end and you would have been better off just finding a better example of the same machine for a bit more money. Let's face it you want to spend more time playing your new "old" pinball then repairing it :)

There is one more test you can do is the FLASHER TEST. Keep in mind the newer machines have a safety feature due to HIGH VOLTAGE and when the coin door is open the circuit is open and the FLASHERS will not go off. You can either locate the white pegs the coin door triggers and push them in with your fingers or just close the coin door and you will see the flasher go off. I find a good test to run is under the UTILITIES MENU called AUTO BURN-IN. Run it and close the coin door and look at all the inserts, pop bumpers, GI, etc.

Going back to my initial point of turning the machine off and then on. You might not see the TEST REPORT error message but you might notice that a message "Factory Settings Restored" appear. This could be a good or bad thing. It is good if the seller say he just put in fresh batteries prior to you arriving and this message is normal whenever you change the batteries. At this point you are best to open the back box instead of taking the seller's word and inspect the battery holder and look for any signs of corrosion like this:

315simp3s.jpg


The problems I've seen from battery corrosion is it is not localized and can do quite a bit of damage on the underside of the PCB and even on IC chips adjacent to it! Now if you don't see any corrosion I would switch the machine off and turn it back on to see if the message appears again. If it does there is probably corrosion damage that is not visible without removing the board to inspect the other side. Thank the seller for the opportunity and walk away cause you saved yourself a lot of money and back ache cause these damn machines are heavy... ask my brother in-law and he'll gladly flip you the bird lol

I hope I'm not scaring the OP away but better to be informed of these things then to spend his hard earned money and be stuck with a huge paperweight. You might also want to read over pinballninja.com which is an excellent blog site which documents tons of common repairs on many different machines ranging from Gotlieb, Stern, Williams, Bally, Sega, Data East, etc.

-mike
 
Last edited:
Thanks!

MWong, can I take you with me? :)

I am definitely more of a player than a "hobbiest" aka repairman. I spend enough time troubleshooting my video games!

Thanks for the great info!! Can be a bit overwhelming for a newbie going out to look at a Pin for the first time...
 
I just got my first pin this weekend, Data East's The Simpsons! It needs some love here and there but thats the only way I could afford it. If your a Simpsons fan I highly reccomend this one. Good music, voices, and art = good time!
 
MWong, can I take you with me? :)

I am definitely more of a player than a "hobbiest" aka repairman. I spend enough time troubleshooting my video games!

Well if you are comfortable troubleshooting/repairing video games then pinball should be fine because there many great resources such as www.pinrepair.com and pinball forums as well. I'm very green when it comes to working on pins and trust me my heart drops if and when I hear that TEST REPORT error when turning on the machine. But luckily the machine is pretty specific when it comes to certain errors like switches but other problems like when you hit both flipper buttons the machine turns off or resets. Those types of problems I hope to never encounter but luckily all my machines have been in very good hands and no "twat" hack jobs.

If I was local I would most definately go with you to check out some machines. Like I said the hardest type of repairs or most costly ones are if there are PCB board damage so you really want to avoid those. Also before you buy a game inspect the ramps for cracks, wear and if they have seen better days. For games like White Water a brand new set of ramps can set you back $600 and involves a pretty overwhelming tear down to replace all I believe. For your first pin I suggest you get a 100% working pinball that way you don't get discouraged from the start. Also keep in mind play field condition > cabinet condition. It is far easier to touch up or fix cabinet decals but play field touch ups are harder and more of an eye sore if not done nicely.

If and when you do pick up your machine spend the $5 on plastic shrink wrap and protect it during transport like this:

5634963664_3c514a825a_z.jpg


Trust me the amount of banging, sliding, dropping it takes for me to move a pin into my house and haven't had a single scratch or dent yet. You might also want to measure your place to make sure the machine will also fit too. See this pic here, I can barely squeeze one pinky on one side going down this final stretch down my basement and I have those damn pie shaped steps too which are a huge PITA!

5634963478_3ecd826d41_z.jpg


That's not me and my brother in-law who has been very great about my addiction. So far he hasn't set me up on an episode of A&E's Intervention yet despite all of this:

Nov 12, 2010
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Nov 19, 2010
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Nov 27, 2010
pin03.JPG


Feb 12, 2011
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Apr 17, 2011
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Best of luck and keep us posted on when you find or thinking of picking up. That way you get an idea if you are over paying or buying a machine that could potentially give you lots of headaches down the road.

-mike
 
Nobody looks very happy about helping! :-D

Where is the enthusiasum?!?

I am in Michigan (Detroit burbs) if there is anyone in the area that is willing or able to help on this quest...

Thanks again.
 
I am a big noob myself when it comes to all of this, but if you ever need another set of hands to help you move something, or search through the pinrepair guides, I'm right next door to you in Wixom.
 
I am in Michigan (Detroit burbs) if there is anyone in the area that is willing or able to help on this quest...

Forgot to ask but what is your budget for your first pin? As you can see from the machines you listed the price range varies.

I was just searching craigslist in Detroit and if they are close you might want to check a few of these:

Indiana Jones (Williams '93) $3500 firm ** 2nd time listing it so they might be willing to budge on their firm pricing.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/vgm/2328363279.html

There are lots of pictures but unfortunately they took pictures of the playfield with the glass on so harder to tell the condition and wear. Has typical cabinet fade for most IJ's I have seen but again at least it is consistently faded all around so might not be a bad thing :p My personal preference is to have a mint playfield then cabinet but both would be nice. Price seems reasonable if playfield and everything works 100%. The guy who sold me Congo bought his IJ for $2800 with similar cabinet fade but needed a lot of little fixes which he is comfortable doing. The holes I think the seller is referring to is where a lockbar use to be installed and those can be easily filled with black coin door carriage bolt and nut like this or if you plan on apply new decals you can fill it.

231-5003-00.jpg


Multiple Pinballs here so call, email and find out how much for each
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/for/2306502126.html

Might want to contact this person and see what other titles he has for sale. From his pictures looks like he has a DE Batman, DE Playboy, WMS Demolition Man and Sega Apollo 13. I'd go for the DM if you can get it for under $1500 but then again I'm biased :p One thing you want to be careful of is the DMD which could cost up to $400 to replace on certain Sega titles like Baywatch, Maverick, Frankenstein and there is only one more which used the super big DMD. To replace a standard DMD you are looking at $125-135+shipping so if you notice the DMD Is gassing out or has lines missing use that you bargain the price down.

Spiderman (Stern) $3200
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/clt/2301629042.html

Not a bad price and nice thing it is not as old as some Bally/Williams titles but then again it all depends on the previous owner. I've seen some piss poor HUO units from owner who play the crap out of it and never clean it or maintain it. You might also want to take an opportunity to play this as well as Bally/Williams, DE, Gotlieb, etc. Each company has a different feel to it and a lot of people don't like how "clunky" these newer Sterns feel compared to the Bally/Williams games.

South Park (Sega) $2200 obo ** again listed twice so might have room to lowball ;)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tag/2301330496.html

A little bit on the high side but it says or best offer. I know a amusement game retailer near here selling it for $1800cdn+13% tax for a shopped out showroom demo unit. This game is nice if you are a fan of South Park but if it is your only machine I read it lacks depth and theme will only take it so far. For the money much better titles can be had.

Star Wars (Data East) $1800
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/for/2299617157.html

If you are a fan then you might like this game and there are many underated and undervalued Data East gems such as Hook and Jurassic Park. I've never played a SW before but have on my Virtual Pinball cabinet and it is quite fun but then again some people call it a "one trick pony". Again much like South Park if you are a fan of it you might like it.

Johnny Mnemonic (Williams) $1300 ** winner, winner chicken dinner. I think this might be the one for you!
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tag/2295702482.html

This one might be the one for you and this almost became my first pin too. I had a chance to play this at a friend's house and it is really fast and for $1300 it is great bang for buck if everything is as claimed in the ad is done. The reds are faded but as long as it is consistent all around it won't bother me and the one I played had fade like this too. The multiball is pretty wild as it dumps the ball onto multiple ramps and the moving glove is a cool toy too which is the only time the machine gives you a chance to catch your breath. Check out Chris Bucci's youtube video cause it gets his stamp of approval :) Check out his other videos too as he has a pretty big collection.

http://www.youtube.com/user/spida1a#p/u/33/Z6c9-aa0mn4

Guns & Roses (Data East) $2900
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tag/2295592841.html

Not a bad price as most of the collectors I have talked to who have one paid $3500-4000 for one in mint condition. It's a very fun pinball and theme execution on it is very well and if you are a GnR fan you will be jizzing your pants playing it lol This one looks like has a bit of cabinet wear but luckily the artwork is alright and the areas that need touch up are black anyways. The lock down bar could either be replaced for $79 from pinballlife.com The playfield wear where the AXL kickout hole is pretty bad but expected on most pins with kickout holes like that. Best thing you can do is touch it up and put some mylar over it to protect further wear.

If you don't mind the drive or crossing the border I can ask a few local pinball collectors to see if anyone is planning to sell anything as they usually keep things in the circle of friends first before it goes up to the general public. There is nothing better than buying from another collector that can be vouched for.

-mike
 
One more thing, I noticed the seller of the JM bought his shopped out by this place:

http://www.pinballshoppe.com

Looks like they have another one for sale @ $2395 too! You might want to make a trip to this place and try out some pins they have on display and remember what title everyone likes might not be one you like and the only way to know is to try it out.

-mike
 
I am figuartively flabergasted by the resposne and support you guys are providng!

Thanks, Thanks, Thanks!!

I would like to find a something for less than $2,000. A Simpsons for $800 or a South Park for maybe $1,500 - $1,700...

Obviously if a LotR or Family Guy was available I would have to adjust upwards...

Am I way off?
 
I would like to find a something for less than $2,000. A Simpsons for $800 or a South Park for maybe $1,500 - $1,700...

Obviously if a LotR or Family Guy was available I would have to adjust upwards...

Am I way off?

As I have mentioned already, get over to pinballshoppe.com if it is not too far from you and play some of their titles and Johnny Mnemonic in particular if they still have it available since there is one for sale for pretty cheap, 100% working, looks to be in good cosmetic condition and require the least amount of work. This is most important as it is your first pin and the last thin you want to do is get in over your head or worse get discouraged from even continuing the hobby. Make sure your first pin is 100% working and slowly learn how to fix simple things such as changing coils, basic soldering, flipper rebuilds and one day you might find that cheap Indian Jones or Theatre of Magic that is beat to crap and and you can bring it back to it's former glory by doing a full tear down and restore.

I've played a South Park and it is amusing at first but I think you will bore of it quickly if it is your only pinball. That is the feedback I've gotten from anyone up here that has owned one. I've never played a Simpsons but you are not that far off from getting a Bally or Williams DMD title. For LOTR I think you will need to budget minimum $3000 and I would think the same thing for Family Guy if not more since it is newer. I've never played Family Guy but LOTR is a great game but again not sure if it is >$3000 fun if this is your first pinball and you seem to have a limited budget. Don't get me wrong, there is no such thing as a bad pinball and it all boils down to your personal preference. I've played so pins that collectors swear by but they didn't do a thing for me and vice versa.

I'm relatively new to this hobby and as much as I'd like to drop $3000-4000 for a single "A" list title, I think I'd rather have two fun playing "B" list games instead for the same price. Trust me you will get bored of one game pretty fast and that is why you see most people have multiple pins in their collection. Look at my time line with my beloved brother in-law for example :)
 
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